Need to replace Cam Phasers or is it time to Replace engine advice please

[Jb14]

Hi All,

I am looking for experienced advice, to see if I am going in the right direction with my expy that will be staying in the family for the next 5 to 6 years.

I have a 2005 5.4 3V with close to 277k still runs strong with all the parts the engine was manufactured with intact minus maintenance items. Like most or all of us I have had the Cam Phaser tick for a while (I did change out the VVT solenoids) I am at the point where I am going to need to change out the Cam Phasers which is a job I don't have time to tackle my self (I also need to change out the throttle body and CATs). It will cost over 2k to have the job done, so will that be enough to have the truck solid for the next 5 or 6 years (note: I will be giving this truck to Son in a year) or while I'm at it might as well rebuild or pop in a reman engine? Rebuild is about $3200 or reman Between 3500 and 4500.

Any guidance is greatly appreciated

 

[Trainmaster]

I'd sell it and move on. It would hurt me both emotionally and financially, but that's a lot of miles to be spending money maintaining.

 

[Jb14]

I understand I will get that recommendation even though that was not the advice I was asking for, selling and moving on will not be my plan. I can drop 5k into the truck that everyone here still wants, and my son will have a reliable truck, that I know the history with. Otherwise, I would have to buy a used car with an unknown history and probably pay more than 5k.

 

[stamp11127]

How old is your son?
How well does he take care of his possessions?
Are you still on the original transmission?

If you drop in a rebuilt or reman engine on a high mileage transmission, expect a short remaining life on it.

 

[Plati]

Seems like a new engine would cost about same or MORE than vehicle can be sold for (with new engine) ... it might not even be saleable in current state with whatever problem it has at the moment.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...=true&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true

If the rest of the vehicle is rock solid (no way to really know that) then probably the $2K repair is worth the $pend, but its a crapshoot. That vehicle will probably average $1000/year in maintenance costs from now on, if lucky. In my experience with my 2003 Expy owned since new.

Too many unknowns for the internet audience. Have you replaced all 4 wheel hubs, window regulators, how are brakes & tires, did you regularly change fuel filter, rust, did you do all scheduled maintenance on time, etc? Last but not least .. you like the vehicle and want to keep it?

 

[Jb14]

My son is 15 very responsible, respectful and mature somewhat of an old soul which is why I would even consider handing him the truck, and yes he is very meticulous with his possessions. The transmission was rebuilt a little over a year ago after it dropped OD, the suspension has been replaced front and rear about a year and a half ago. Interior is in impeccable shape and everything works.

 

[Jb14]

How old is your son?
How well does he take care of his possessions?
Are you still on the original transmission?

If you drop in a rebuilt or reman engine on a high mileage transmission, expect a short remaining life on it.

My son is 15 very responsible, respectful and mature somewhat of an old soul which is why I would even consider handing him the truck, and yes he is very meticulous with his possessions. The transmission was rebuilt a little over a year ago after it dropped OD, the suspension has been replaced front and rear about a year and a half ago. Interior is in impeccable shape and everything works.

 

[1955moose]

It sounds like your very attached to that vehicle. That's understandable. Your heading down a slippery slope here. Keep in mind unless you buy a Ford remanufactured engine, all the phaser, and oiling problems can pop up sooner than later as your well maintained original. The problem with rebuilding is again what parts will they install? And how good is the machine work. If it were me I'd spend the extra $ and get a Ford reman engine. That's going to be your safest path. And if you don't already have a trusty mechanic, now's the time to do your homework. Ask him/her for references. Sounds crazy, but good people have nothing to hide, crooks do!

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[stamp11127]

Not saying your son will trash the truck but usually the first vehicle ends up being a beater unless they have sweat equity invested in it. Does or will his high school offer vocational classes in automotive?
On the other hand, if you are going to end up in an accident, a tank is better than a tin can.

Don"t know if you can do this on the Ford ecm but semi truck ecms allow for a max mph to be set. If this is an option maybe the ForScan guys on here will chime in on where the setting is.

 

[Jb14]

It sounds like your very attached to that vehicle. That's understandable. Your heading down a slippery slope here. Keep in mind unless you buy a Ford remanufactured engine, all the phaser, and oiling problems can pop up sooner than later as your well maintained original. The problem with rebuilding is again what parts will they install? And how good is the machine work. If it were me I'd spend the extra $ and get a Ford reman engine. That's going to be your safest path. And if you don't already have a trusty mechanic, now's the time to do your homework. Ask him/her for references. Sounds crazy, but good people have nothing to hide, crooks do!

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

Yes we are attached been great but want to be proactive. I have spent the past few months researching and speaking to mechanics and even tested them out so I found a good one. For remans I would lean towards the direct ford reman or Jasper but most likely Ford if going that route

 

[Jb14]

Not saying your son will trash the truck but usually the first vehicle ends up being a beater unless they have sweat equity invested in it. Does or will his high school offer vocational classes in automotive?
On the other hand, if you are going to end up in an accident, a tank is better than a tin can.

Don"t know if you can do this on the Ford ecm but semi truck ecms allow for a max mph to be set. If this is an option maybe the ForScan guys on here will chime in on where the setting is.

I know I had a beater, but I needed one I was much more aggressive than him when I was his age, I am not expecting perfection from him but I also know he won't beat on it. His school does not have a vocational course, but with that said he does turn wrenches with me and I have been researching outside vehicle mechanics courses that he will or him and I will be taking so he gets the trained sweat equity before he takes possession, which he wants to do.

 

[Trainmaster]

I understand I will get that recommendation even though that was not the advice I was asking for,...

So then why ask? Just ask yourself. You'll avoid pesky logical reality, and save the time and effort of those who help others see foolishness.

Next time, clue us in to the advice you want to hear.
Let me take another stab at it:

------+------

ADVICE -- SECOND TRY:

Install a Ford Motorcraft certified rebuilt engine and tranny, and don't forget the catalytic converters (you are in California), or you'll probably void the engine warranty. Walker mufflers too - they last a couple of years. You can use a Channel lock; they'll pop right off. Then remember the fuel pump and radiator too, because the plastic parts are brittle as gingerbread and the gaskets are like rock. After you do that, the idler pulley with more miles than the space shuttle can seize up and throw the belt through the new radiator. Have you pulled the dash to replace the heater core yet? While you're there you might as well do the a/c evaporator. They're both on ebay from China for $49. Have you left the spare tire on the freeway yet? Better replace that spare tire winch or you will. And your belt tensioner spring is just dangling around and hasn't moved in a year. Tranny cooling lines rust at the bends, so go for them -- Dorman makes them but probably not the ones you need. The power steering hoses are swelling up now -- don't forget that 3/8 clawfoot socket you need for them and the giant pitman arm puller. Watch your teeth when the fingers break. You probably don't care about shocks so you can pass on those. Is the parking brake hardware rattling around in the drums yet? Stomp them for the first time since Bush was president - it will. And don't forget that blower fan relay plug or it'll set your carpet on fire. Duct tape comes in color to match your seats also, so no worry there.

Good thing you're in California -- you can work on crap all year 'round.

 

[Jb14]

So then why ask? Just ask yourself. You'll avoid pesky logical reality, and save the time and effort of those who help others see foolishness.

Next time, just tell us what advice you want to hear:

Install a Ford Motorcraft certified rebuilt engine and tranny, and don't forget the catalytic converters (you are in California). Walker mufflers too - they last a couple of years. Then remember the fuel pump and radiator, because the plastic tanks are turning to slag. After you do that, the idler pulley can seize up and throw the belt through the new radiator. Have you pulled the dash to replace the heater core yet? While you're there you might as well do the a/c evaporator. Have you left the spare tire on the road yet? Better replace that spare tire winch or you will. And your belt tensioner spring hasn't moved in a year. Tranny cooling lines rust at the bends, so go for them -- Dorman makes them but probably not the ones you need. The power steering hoses are swelling up now -- don't forget that 3/8 clawfoot socket you need for them and the giant pitman arm puller. You probably don't care about shocks so you can pass on those. Is the parking brake hardware rattling around in the drums yet? Stom on them for the first time since Bush was president - it will. And don't forget that blower fan relay plug or it'll set your carpet on fire.

Good thing you're in California -- you can work on crap all year 'round.

Trainmaster, I did ask for specific advice on what I was doing. I did not ask if I should keep or get rid of the truck. Not sure why this is bringing out those comments and assumptions above, but I am solid on the above items you mention.

 

[stamp11127]

Bedrck47 has passed but his spirit lives on!

 

[1955moose]

He sure does don't he. We were all such nice guys a few years back. Jb don't take it the wrong way, but the advice their giving you wasn't asked for, but were just weighing the odds. Remember when you change or disrupt an item on a vehicle, other things start to break just down the road. If your prepared for these unexpected visitors, go for it. On this forum we have a lot of different personalities, like your parents and friends, we don't always tell you 100 percent what you want to hear. Bottom line take in the info, and make the smartest move for you.

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[Trainmaster]

I'll try to answer just the question this time without being snarky:

The choice between simply repairing vs. replacing depends on the level of risk you wish to take and your budget, both now and looking ahead. If you install a rebuilt engine, you'll probably get a warranty, which hopefully will cover you for a couple of years. If you just replace the phasers, the engine won't be warranted.

When you open the motor to replace the phasers, good practice would require you to replace a bunch of other accessible stuff "while you're at it". The cost of these add up quickly, especially if you want to use quality parts. So just doing repairs may be close to the price of a warranted rebuilt motor.

Another consideration is that you really can't be sure of your motor's condition at that mileage. All mechanical parts are just waiting for the right time to break, so it is possible that this baby will throw a rod or blow a head gasket right after you finish sinking $3500 into phaser, chain, water pump, oil pump and guides and maybe a manifold. You could hedge your bet by doing a compression test and dropping the oil pan and looking around to better know the condition of what you've got -- but that's more work that still won't guarantee much. Remember that you're poking a sleeping bear here.

Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of poorly built motors horribly installed. But considering your high mileage, if you locate a Ford Motorcraft rebuild with a good warranty and you have the budget to chase down any later problems, I think I'd recommend the rebuilt motor.

Or just run it 'till she blows up, then replace the motor.

Are we friends again?

Rebuild is about $3200 or reman Between 3500 and 4500.

What's the difference? Is a "rebuild" just a junkyard engine that's spray painted? Only one deal in my book and that would be a rebuilt motor from Ford. Otherwise you might as well buy one yourself from a junker and pay Horhey $500 to install it, which honestly is another option.

 

[the bus]

I am with you on keeping it going. I am in the same boat. A new one is way too expensive and I know what I've got with my 2004.

I did a reman ford engine 4.6 and they have a 3 yr warranty. There are other brands out there. And is the good thing with remans ...they are warrantied. I had a cam hold down break and ford replaced the head. Just my .02.

 

[Trainmaster]

If the motor's just making noise, but still running well and the mileage is that high, why not keep running it until it breaks. That old girl may just keep going, rattle and all. Are you afraid it's unreliable at this point?

 

[Jb14]

I am with you on keeping it going. I am in the same boat. A new one is way too expensive and I know what I've got with my 2004.

I did a reman ford engine 4.6 and they have a 3 yr warranty. There are other brands out there. And is the good thing with remans ...they are warrantied. I had a cam hold down break and ford replaced the head. Just my .02.

Thank you Bus,

That is one of the main reason to keep is I know what I have, and buying into anything new used unknown will cost more and who knows how it was treated. I am leaning towards the Ford reman as well. It seems that doing the Cam Pasher job alone cost wise I'm about halfway there cost wise so might as well replace the engine.

I appreciate your feed back!

 

[Jb14]

He sure does don't he. We were all such nice guys a few years back. Jb don't take it the wrong way, but the advice their giving you wasn't asked for, but were just weighing the odds. Remember when you change or disrupt an item on a vehicle, other things start to break just down the road. If your prepared for these unexpected visitors, go for it. On this forum we have a lot of different personalities, like your parents and friends, we don't always tell you 100 percent what you want to hear. Bottom line take in the info, and make the smartest move for you.

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Thank you Moose,

I understand that and this forum has changed a bit over the past 5 years. Initially, I was not going to post my question for that exact reason, but I know folks like you and stamp and some others will assist in weighing the pros and cons. I have been around the block very thick skin. In regards to my Post, I have been weighing all the options for quite some time now, and know all the issue that can arise from keeping my vehicle, but I also know how I have taken care of it, what parts I have replaced and the cost associated with it. I am going to keep the vehicle as I know it versus a used unknown well kept another vehicle is. Yes I am giving to my son in about a year, but I will still be driving it for a while and this will be our off-road vehicle even when he gets it (we have that type of relationship) I figure it was a fairly simple question if I am basically half-way there cost wise doing the Cam Phaser job should I just re-build complete or re-man. I am leaning Ford re-man but the other side was this engine has been incredibly solid and I have a very good engine builder I have vetted out (yes I did speak to some of his customers) understanding with re-build may not address some re-maned fixes (though I have heard even re-man has not taken care of the Cam Phase issue) also with the re-build I can select which parts go in from fasteners to cams if I choose to.