Major changes should be made.

[JExpedition07]

I wouldn’t say “the ecoboost and plastic bumpers picked up buyers”. Statistical data doesn’t support that statement. Overall sales for 2018 were lower than 2017 however retail was up. 2015-2017 were some of the lowest sales years for the 3rd generation truck (2007-2017). When the 2nd gen was released in 2003 Ford sold about 180,000 units, today they sell about 50-60,000 units annually. Many other factors though. Still good trucks overall imo.

 

[1955moose]

The Germans got it right with their full sized lineup back in the 70's and 80's. Drive an older 450 or 500 Mercedes, that's low hours, and you'll say that's a car. Heavy steering that doesn't wander, even at triple digit speeds. And brakes that match the power of the vehicle. Seems that Americans wanted a cushy easy steering vehicle. I remember driving the early Taurus back in the late 80's, and loved that Mercedes like steering. Only tradeoff brakes that totally faded and went away going down long grades. I agree that Ford should offer a larger rotor/ stickier pad combo, like muscle cars had back in the day. It's pretty dumb building a vehicle and you've got to go through pages of useless trim, and garbage, and nothing is there that should be. Say like bigger engine options, choice of a 5 or 6 speed manual trans, better suspension options, etc. Makes you wonder who thinks up these package options. They obviously aren't listening to customers. Back in the day company's like Toyota, Honda, and Nissan did just that ,they asked the customer what do you want, not this is what you should buy. Someday the big three will get it.

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[Blackscreen67]

I woudlve considered a bluetech gls if they brought em over still if the expy didnt come out. Keyword is "considered". I rele think they are testing the waters with the powertrains, but the 5.0, 2.7l and current 3.5 being offered now would push expy and navi sales to crazy levels. Ive seen too many ppl here and other platforms who lament the fact that the v8 isnt offered and would buy one otherwise. Shame cuz its a beautiful engine. Since the hybrid is supposed to come out by 2021(or atleast by the mce) if they bring all these engines and drivetrains to the table as options with it, ford may actually catch up to gm(lets be real, only reason ford is way behind is they dont offer a v8).

You know some of the best motors ever created are diesel, and they get shelved out of stigma, fear, and lack of knowledge.

Hell people want really power and fuel economy... the railroads have done that for decades with diesel hybrids.

 

[Uturn]

Hey wait a minute! Maybe a timing belt would be a good thing.

If you ever have to pay to replace the water pump in a 3.5 EcoBoost you might wish it had a timing belt.

 

[1955moose]

Timing belts are generally used vs chain for maximum power transfer. A chain robs horsepower compared to a fiberglass composite belt. You almost never see one on any engine larger than a V6. The extra torque and horsepower of the V8 deems it unnecessary. On top of that the torque from say a 400 plus V8 would probably stress it out real quick. I've seen what excessive horsepower can do to a Harley Davidson drive belt. Most serious Harley owners with over 140 HP convert to sprockets and heavy duty chain setup.

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[edizzle]

So after having logged 500 miles on this limited 4x4 302a with CCD and 22s and tow pack I find myself wishing there were some serious improvements to basic components.

Most importantly and yet basic of all things Ford over looked would have to be the brakes. Plain and simple the brakes are significantly undersized, and can barely slow the vehicle on the drop without coast through and brake drag. I wouldn't tow 5klbs let alone 9k lbs with this thing. Simply too dangerous being Ford neglected basic safety features. This will result in me upgrading pads and rotors to a better design that'll actually do the job.

The suspension needs alot of work. Handling wise there too much body roll for an electronically controlled system. There's very little in terms of stability adjust and planting of the vehicle. The only real setting that provides some sense of handling ability is the sport mode which creates a harsher tire bounce aswell. The other settings are the equivalent of a car with the handling of a waterbed. Not even to mention The tread design and 22" rim combo leave you on the hunts for flat concrete to not feel I like a wind up set of choppers.

The steering is another big pet peeve of mine. It's way too artificial, and potentially enables too easy over compensation of the wheel in circumstances.
To much reliance of electronics rather than driver.

As far as I'm concerned it's a nice car yes, but Ford place significantly too much emphasis on finishes such as interior/ exteriors which are the ticket driving items and yet cut corners in the basic needs of safety and structure.

Gas milege for in city driving in horrific averaging around 12.5 aswell which is inexcusable for a twin turbo v6. Only thing that explains this is crap factory tuning, which is exactly what it is.


Over all it gets a 6 out of 10 in my book, and frankly having owned a 2015 AWD Durango RT with the 8sp..... the Durango exceeds all the above and out performs on every level, yet just lacks some interior room and couple bells and whistles.

It's frankly embarrassing that Durango was loaded out at $51k with a 380hp non boosted V8 and averaged 13mpgs in city driving with not much less weight, handled better, and drove smoother with non electronic steering and 20s.

The Durango is rated to tow 6-9k without added towing enhancements, and the Expedition is only designed for 5-6k, and the towing enhancements aren't making any load bearing changes. That tells you alot on the OEM suspension being underbuilt from Ford.

This is craziness right here!! Disagree with everything.

 

[Blackscreen67]

The Germans got it right with their full sized lineup back in the 70's and 80's. Drive an older 450 or 500 Mercedes, that's low hours, and you'll say that's a car. Heavy steering that doesn't wander, even at triple digit speeds. And brakes that match the power of the vehicle. Seems that Americans wanted a cushy easy steering vehicle. I remember driving the early Taurus back in the late 80's, and loved that Mercedes like steering. Only tradeoff brakes that totally faded and went away going down long grades. I agree that Ford should offer a larger rotor/ stickier pad combo, like muscle cars had back in the day. It's pretty dumb building a vehicle and you've got to go through pages of useless trim, and garbage, and nothing is there that should be. Say like bigger engine options, choice of a 5 or 6 speed manual trans, better suspension options, etc. Makes you wonder who thinks up these package options. They obviously aren't listening to customers. Back in the day company's like Toyota, Honda, and Nissan did just that ,they asked the customer what do you want, not this is what you should buy. Someday the big three will get it.

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This is craziness right here!! Disagree with everything.

Lmao.... disagree all you want. Doesn't change ****** brakes, spongy suspension, weak springs, or bad tuning.

Cosmetics is the only thing selling them.

As others have stated taking a vehicle and doubling it' cost compared to the same lower trim make/model is throwing lipstick on a pig. Anything can be dressed up, haven't you seen the movie pretty woman? Lol

This car is a family hauler, but basic safety provisions such as brakes worth a respectable nod shouldn't be a request or after thought.

 

[1955moose]

I agree big brakes should be #1 on the hit list. Ever wonder why so many buy Beemers? Drive one and you'll see. They've got pizza sized disc brakes front and rear, huge calipers, and all the go power to make them a fun car/SUV to drive. Companies like Baer brakes and others make upgrades but their price is staggering. $3,500 on up is a huge jump, not to mention another $300.00 to $500.00 to install. 4 grand is a lot for most of us. Sure would make sense if Ford went in cahoots with Brembo or Baer, and offered the option on the '19 models. If you had the option to just up the payments by say $50.00 a month, more people would say sure, check that box for me. They might even be able to use Mustang or another big disc vehicles brakes. Pulling direct from the parts bins always the ticket.

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[Blackscreen67]

I agree big brakes should be #1 on the hit list. Ever wonder why so many buy Beemers? Drive one and you'll see. They've got pizza sized disc brakes front and rear, huge calipers, and all the go power to make them a fun car/SUV to drive. Companies like Baer brakes and others make upgrades but their price is staggering. $3,500 on up is a huge jump, not to mention another $300.00 to $500.00 to install. 4 grand is a lot for most of us. Sure would make sense if Ford went in cahoots with Brembo or Baer, and offered the option on the '19 models. If you had the option to just up the payments by say $50.00 a month, more people would say sure, check that box for me. They might even be able to use Mustang or another big disc vehicles brakes. Pulling direct from the parts bins always the ticket.

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This is my X6M, to your point this car weighs 5400lbs with me in it and can stop on a thimble.

These wheels are 21" rims aswell, and you can see the whole wheel well is used for rotor.



Compared to these cute little things.

 

[1955moose]

Hard to believe they use 13 inch fronts and 13.5 rear on newer Expedition. My first gen uses 12 inchers, they look so tiny with open 20inch rims. What size are the Beemer disc's? They've got to be 15 inch

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[Blackscreen67]

Hard to believe they use 13 inch fronts and 13.5 rear on newer Expedition. My first gen uses 12 inchers, they look so tiny with open 20inch rims. What size are the Beemer disc's? They've got to be 15 inch

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15.6 front, 15.2 rear.

 

[JExpedition07]

My 2007 has 14” fronts I believe not sure on the rear. Maybe they shrunk the brakes down when they did the lighter aluminum body.

 

[dlcorbett]

They are the same size as the 15-17 models. Im sure its the brake modulation because more often than not this thing stops well. The max and nav trucks dont have the soft pedal and the nav stops respectively at 120ish ft.

 

[Mike Wolfe]

Interesting discussion
Our company uses Denali's & Escalades for company vehicles
Have driven them many miles
I own a 2018 EXPY with FX4 & HD Tow along with a bunch of other options I probably would not opt for if I special ordered it
Has about 6K miles on it now
Have had 5 star recalibration for the last 1500 miles
This vehicle is drastically superior to the company vehicles
Mileage averages about 19 mpg at 85 mph on the Interstate & 22 mpg for mixed city & highway driving
That is up about 1.8 mpg from the average before recalibration
I too would love to have Brembo's
I have never purchased a vehicle that had adequate brakes from the factory as far as I am concerned
Larger rotors & 6 piston Brembo's would be great but may be way too expensive

 

[edizzle]

Lmao.... disagree all you want. Doesn't change ****** brakes, spongy suspension, weak springs, or bad tuning.

Cosmetics is the only thing selling them.

As others have stated taking a vehicle and doubling it' cost compared to the same lower trim make/model is throwing lipstick on a pig. Anything can be dressed up, haven't you seen the movie pretty woman? Lol

This car is a family hauler, but basic safety provisions such as brakes worth a respectable nod shouldn't be a request or after thought.

I’ve got 20k miles on mine. Brakes are more than adequate suspension is great, this truck out handles any other full size SUV on the road, fact.

you are comparing it to an X6M, LOL!!

Also it’s not double, go back to school.

 

[Blackscreen67]

I’ve got 20k miles on mine. Brakes are more than adequate suspension is great, this truck out handles any other full size SUV on the road, fact.

you are comparing it to an X6M, LOL!!

Also it’s not double, go back to school.

Oh Lord, ok Mr. Technical is a base price is 50k before incentives or dealer discounts and decked out can be 80k+ that's close enough to round up to double lol.

Nothing is being compared. The point being made is it's under engineered compared to it's finishes.

 

[edizzle]

The front rotors are .8" (13.8") bigger than the GMs. Couldn’t find rear specs on the Expy. They hold up very well to heavy braking. Have not gotten any fade or pulsating, which has been a problem on EVERY vehicle we have ever owned. I can assure you I have driven this truck harder than any of you here have and most ever will. The braking system is perfectly adequate for the vehicle.

It is comical to compare the expedition brakes to a BMW X6M!! That right there discredits any opinion of yours in my book! It is a $115,000 coupe! LOL. It is literally half the size of the expedition. If they built a comporable model to the expedition following the engineering and design goals of the X6M, it would be a $200,000 vehicle.

I would imagine they are the same or similar to the F150 that has been pulling shit all over America for many moons!!!

 

[Blackscreen67]

The front rotors are .8" (13.8") bigger than the GMs. Couldn’t find rear specs on the Expy. They hold up very well to heavy braking. Have not gotten any fade or pulsating, which has been a problem on EVERY vehicle we have ever owned. I can assure you I have driven this truck harder than any of you here have and most ever will. The braking system is perfectly adequate for the vehicle.

It is comical to compare the expedition brakes to a BMW X6M!! That right there discredits any opinion of yours in my book! It is a $115,000 coupe! LOL. It is literally half the size of the expedition. If they built a comporable model to the expedition following the engineering and design goals of the X6M, it would be a $200,000 vehicle.

I would imagine they are the same or similar to the F150 that has been pulling shit all over America for many moons!!!

There you go again talking about a comparison when one wasn't made.

To feed your narraive the X6M weighs 5,200lbs and the Expedition weighs 5,700lbs. Not much difference in weight, which weight is was equates to stopping distance.

I'm a believer that the fundamental platform and function of a car/ truck should take priority over refinements. Thats my opinion and preference. Clearly you have a strong opinion on the purposes your vehicle serves you, and I have my own.

I'll leave this for you to chew on.

The Ford fusion has 12.5" rotors and weighs 3,800lbs. So it is 2,000lbs lighter and has a surface area an inch smaller than the Expedition.

Physics of braking power down lie.

 

[edizzle]

There you go again talking about a comparison when one wasn't made.

To feed your narraive the X6M weighs 5,200lbs and the Expedition weighs 5,700lbs. Not much difference in weight, which weight is was equates to stopping distance.

I'm a believer that the fundamental platform and function of a car/ truck should take priority over refinements. Thats my opinion and preference. Clearly you have a strong opinion on the purposes your vehicle serves you, and I have my own.

I'll leave this for you to chew on.

The Ford fusion has 12.5" rotors and weighs 3,800lbs. So it is 2,000lbs lighter and has a surface area an inch smaller than the Expedition.

Physics of braking power down lie.

You literally said "compared to these little things" but you are not making a comparison!!! Ok got it.

Also rotor diameter is but one factor in brake design. A Bugatti Chiron ways 4,300 lbs and has 16.5" rotors! It all depends on the design philosophy and what the vehicle is intended for!

You are correct, physics do not lie, the expedition stops just fine.

 

[Blackscreen67]

You literally said "compared to these little things" but you are not making a comparison!!! Ok got it.

Also rotor diameter is but one factor in brake design. A Bugatti Chiron ways 4,300 lbs and has 16.5" rotors! It all depends on the design philosophy and what the vehicle is intended for!

You are correct, physics do not lie, the expedition stops just fine.

Guy read the context, the other poster was talking about bimmer brakes, and I just so happen to have one of those lying around to supply a point of reference. Now you're bringing a 16.5" rotor in the equation that uses 8 pistons per caliper lol. Really?

The expedition relies on a 13" with 2 pistons yet this would be the perfect setup for your odd choice of reference.




Clearly this setup is overkill, but even a 3 piston design would make big difference in ability to stop.