Rumbling noise on turning 2017 exp LTD EL

[jeff kushner]

I appreciate your input 16 but I do not need "clutch packs", nor did you in all likelihood. One DOES need to look at a blowup of the rear differential to understand.

I have a tiny bit of experience when it comes to this stuff....I'm good.

If in the future, I prove to be wrong, I'll admit and own it.....but I doubt that will be the case.

jeff

16,
I truly hope that your dealer was honest to you but knowing that most dealers only employ a single master mechanic and a bunch of parts changers, I would wonder who would have had the skill-set at a deal to replace them?

I'm curious since I honestly thought they were BS'ing you when you were told they had replaced them.....did you look at the assembly bolts of the rear to see if they had been removed & replaced? A 2016 will easily show if it was really taken apart but you will have to look close because often, lube is sprayed but no bolts was actually undone...they do it as a "show".

 

[16plati]

I appreciate your input 16 but I do not need "clutch packs", nor did you in all likelihood. One DOES need to look at a blowup of the rear differential to understand.

I have a tiny bit of experience when it comes to this stuff....I'm good.

If in the future, I prove to be wrong, I'll admit and own it.....but I doubt that will be the case.

jeff

16,
I truly hope that your dealer was honest to you but knowing that most dealers only employ a single master mechanic and a bunch of parts changers, I would wonder who would have had the skill-set at a deal to replace them?

I'm curious since I honestly thought they were BS'ing you when you were told they had replaced them.....did you look at the assembly bolts of the rear to see if they had been removed & replaced? A 2016 will easily show if it was really taken apart but you will have to look close because often, lube is sprayed but no bolts was actually undone...they do it as a "show".

Cover had been cleaned, I have all new rear diff cover bolts and new rear diff sealant. I saw the old plates next to new ones and could see exactly what was happening inside the rear diff. I requested their master mechanic and they gave him the job without hesitation. He is the guy who does rear end specific jobs at my dealer. I know they put the modifier in with the gear lube bc it smells like shit now. They did a full service and didn't jip me at all. I have a parts list of everything they purchased and installed

 

[jeff kushner]

That's fantastic....I had seen the receipt.....you really have a fantastic dealer...congratulations! Not often we see this!

The Additive isn't the source, it's almost oderless....it's the moly in the grease...horrible super-strong sulfur-like smell right? Wasn't in the original fluid either I noticed when I poured it from the pan to the big container. It's an excellent lube however customers don't like bad smells so maybe that's why it wasn't used...I don't know.

Again, glad you're all fixed and happy.

jeff

 

[Erzebet]

Yeah I just got upgraded carbon fiber packs, fluid, and modifier all under warranty. Smooth as butter now

I so wish my dealer was like yours. I have the same shudder/rumble symptoms at slow turns from a stop (pulling away from curb or out of a parking space) as described in your thread(s) on my '16 EL with 46K. It started in March. Three visits later , and after checking the front end and the brake system they still can't find anything wrong.

I want to try a different tactic. Instead of asking them to to troubleshoot the symptoms I describe (which has gotten me nowhere thus far), I want to bring it back and ask the Service Adviser to check the clutch packs. Can the mechanic/technician tell if the clutch packs are the culprit just by looking inside the differential or by draining the fluid? Is there a TSB, or something I can refer them to for the symptoms? How did they refer to your clutch pack repair on the invoice? If I have to use your experience for them to seriously consider the clutch packs as the source of my issue = I will. I just want this issue fixed. Thanks for any advice you can lend.

 

[aagitch]

Am I correct that the shudder/rumble would pertain to the limited slip rear. I don't have this issue but was just curious. Mine isn't limited slip anyways.

 

[16plati]

I so wish my dealer was like yours. I have the same shudder/rumble symptoms at slow turns from a stop (pulling away from curb or out of a parking space) as described in your thread(s) on my '16 EL with 46K. It started in March. Three visits later , and after checking the front end and the brake system they still can't find anything wrong.

I want to try a different tactic. Instead of asking them to to troubleshoot the symptoms I describe (which has gotten me nowhere thus far), I want to bring it back and ask the Service Adviser to check the clutch packs. Can the mechanic/technician tell if the clutch packs are the culprit just by looking inside the differential or by draining the fluid? Is there a TSB, or something I can refer them to for the symptoms? How did they refer to your clutch pack repair on the invoice? If I have to use your experience for them to seriously consider the clutch packs as the source of my issue = I will. I just want this issue fixed. Thanks for any advice you can lend.

Only way to know is if the truck shutters and rumbles when you turn under power at low speeds. They won’t open it up just to open it they will ask why u want to open it and if it ends up being nothing now your paying for diagnostic fee and a rear diff fluid exchange

 

[16plati]

Am I correct that the shudder/rumble would pertain to the limited slip rear. I don't have this issue but was just curious. Mine isn't limited slip anyways.

Correct. LSD

 

[Cynthia2963]

Hey all, thanks for your suggestions! It turns out it was the differential! Thank goodness for warranty!

 

[turtle019]

Thanks for the great info y'all! I was having the same problem and just got my clutch pack replaced and friction modifier added under warranty. Silky smooth now

 

[Greg S]

Hey all, sorry I'm late to the party but just experienced the same issue after changing my rear differential oil at 99K miles, also lifted my truck with the 3/2 ReadyLift kit, new struts and coils (KYB Strut-Plus), and new BFG All Terrain KO2 tires, within about a month timeframe. I had always noticed a slight vibration when turning hard to the left or right at low speeds, but it seemed to get worse. I initially thought it was due to the new tires and their aggressive tread gripping the road, but came across this thread and realized that when I changed the rear diff oil, I didn't put any of the Motorcraft XL3 friction modifier. I used Mobil 1 75W90 gear oil which advertises to have an LSD additive, which is why I didn't add it to begin with.

After reading this, I ordered a bottle of the XL3 off of Amazon. When it arrived, I removed about 12oz of the new gear oil from the fill plug with a fluid pump, discarded it, mixed the contents of the 4oz bottle with 8oz of fresh Mobil 1 gear oil, and added it to the rear differential, and reinstalled the fill plug.

After driving the truck for about 150 miles over a 3 day period, the vibration got much better and is about 90% gone at this point. I figure that the remaining minimal vibration is due to the lift combined with the wheel offset (5.5" of backspacing) and tires, so I can live with that.

Just wanted to share my experience as well, as it seems that many of us 3rd gen Expedition owners have this issue and there are many different theories out there...the $10 bottle of friction modifier and 30 minutes of time to add it to my already new gear oil solved the problem.

 

[LokiWolf]

Clarity:

4A does have worse MPG than 2WD. That has been well documented.

Everything does not spin in 2WD.

Both of the above are fact. You can feel the difference, just in the amount of throttle needed to move the vehicle. My wife even noticed it.

You don’t have less power in 4A, but you do have increased driveline loss, because there is more spinning inertia. So power to the wheels is decreased.

On a hard launch or slippery surface that is negated by the fact that you have more traction, and under slippery conditions, more of the actual engine power is equating to forward motion.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Sunflowergirl]

Clarity:

4A does have worse MPG than 2WD. That has been well documented.

Everything does not spin in 2WD.

Both of the above are fact. You can feel the difference, just in the amount of throttle needed to move the vehicle. My wife even noticed it.

You don’t have less power in 4A, but you do have increased driveline loss, because there is more spinning inertia. So power to the wheels is decreased.

On a hard launch or slippery surface that is negated by the fact that you have more traction, and under slippery conditions, more of the actual engine power is equating to forward motion.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

******* Christ here we go again. You obviously haven’t seen the video of the raptor in 2WD with the half shafts still rotating eventhough there is no power being sent to them in 2WD. You two clowns really make this forum unenjoyable

 

[07navi]

Clarity:

4A does have worse MPG than 2WD. That has been well documented.

Everything does not spin in 2WD.

Both of the above are fact. You can feel the difference, just in the amount of throttle needed to move the vehicle. My wife even noticed it.

You don’t have less power in 4A, but you do have increased driveline loss, because there is more spinning inertia. So power to the wheels is decreased.

On a hard launch or slippery surface that is negated by the fact that you have more traction, and under slippery conditions, more of the actual engine power is equating to forward motion.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

By less power I mean less acceleration, of course the engine power remains the same.

 

[LokiWolf]

By less power I mean less acceleration, of course the engine power remains the same.

Power and acceleration are 2 different things. Acceleration brings traction in to play. So 4A can actually increase acceleration under high load(hard launch) or low traction(wet, snow, gravel) situations.

Available power to the wheels is decreased by having 4A engaged vs 2WD on 3rd Gen Expeditions. Honestly haven’t researched the 4th Gens systems enough to make comment on those.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[07navi]

Power and acceleration are 2 different things. Acceleration brings traction in to play. So 4A can actually increase acceleration under high load(hard launch) or low traction(wet, snow, gravel) situations.

Available power to the wheels is decreased by having 4A engaged vs 2WD on 3rd Gen Expeditions. Honestly haven’t researched the 4th Gens systems enough to make comment on those.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

But that's a no brainer and I never said anything about those conditions.

 

[LokiWolf]

But that's a no brainer and I never said anything about those conditions.

10-4. Just clarifying. I like to be clear and concise and blanket statements rarely are cut and dry. Hence my clarity. For some it is a no brainer...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[07navi]

10-4. Just clarifying. I like to be clear and concise and blanket statements rarely are cut and dry. Hence my clarity. For some it is a no brainer...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

OK, one more thing; while that video showed the front drive train of the Raptor slowly turning in 2WD I think it might just be that truck or they have fixed that since then since clutches aren't supposed to drag.
One more thing; someone earlier said they always keep it in auto while roads are wet but that does nothing unless you floor it at stoplights and are in a hurry. Auto is actually only beneficial in rare instances and shouldn't be used otherwise.

 

[Plati]

OK, one more thing; while that video showed the front drive train of the Raptor slowly turning in 2WD I think it might just be that truck or they have fixed that since then since clutches aren't supposed to drag.
One more thing; someone earlier said they always keep it in auto while roads are wet but that does nothing unless you floor it at stoplights and are in a hurry. Auto is actually only beneficial in rare instances and shouldn't be used otherwise.

MsNavi
there's no point in debating anything with you, you are a Troll and just like to argue
no amount of information would change your stated "fake opinions"
which exist merely to annoy others

MrLoki ... can you point me to where its documented? ... please?
your quote: "4A does have worse MPG than 2WD. That has been well documented"
I've never seen it documented other than someone on a Forum stating it as fact
and I guess where you saw it documented, what is the magnitude? less than 1 mpg?
and under what driving conditions was it demonstrated?

 

[07navi]

MsNavi
there's no point in debating anything with you, you are a Troll and just like to argue
no amount of information would change your stated "fake opinions"
which exist merely to annoy others

MrLoki ... can you point me to where its documented? ... please?
your quote: "4A does have worse MPG than 2WD. That has been well documented"
I've never seen it documented other than someone on a Forum stating it as fact
and I guess where you saw it documented, what is the magnitude? less than 1 mpg?
and under what driving conditions was it demonstrated?

Actually I just try to help everyone by using my extensive mechanical background and Lokiwolf is right. I have seen 2 mpg loss many times elsewhere. Don't be a stickler.

 

[LokiWolf]

MrLoki ... can you point me to where its documented? ... please?
your quote: "4A does have worse MPG than 2WD. That has been well documented"

How about page 166 of the 2017 Manual:

The Control Trac[emoji2400] system functions in four modes:
• 2H delivers power to the rear wheels only. The information display will momentarily display 2H when this mode is selected. This mode is appropriate for normal on-road driving on dry pavement and provides the best fuel economy.
• 4A provides electronic control four-wheel drive with power delivered to all four wheels, as required, for increased traction. The information display will display 4A when this mode is selected. This mode is appropriate for all on-road driving conditions, such as dry road surfaces, wet pavement, snow, or gravel.
• 4H provides electronically locked four-wheel drive power to front and rear wheels. The information display will display 4H when this mode is selected. This mode is not recommended for use on dry pavement. This mode is only intended for severe winter or off-road conditions, such as deep snow, ice or shallow sand.
• 4L provides electronically locked four-wheel drive when extra power at reduced speeds is required. The information display will display 4L when this mode is selected. This mode is not recommended for use on dry pavement. Use this mode for off-road low-speed operation or when extra power is required, such as climbing steep grades, going through deep sand or pulling a boat out of the water.

There was a year of the Expedition, honestly can’t remember what year, cause I didn’t own one back then that only had 4A, no 2WD. A coworkers wife had one, and they always complained about the terrible MPG. It was talked about a lot at one point. It just makes sense that it would lower MPG.

Let’s go over the 15-17 4WD and what is in play in each mode as I understand it.

The changes in this system happens in 2 places, the front hubs and the center Diff(Transfer case).

2H - Front Hubs unlocked - Transfer case sends zero power to the front Dif. There will still be some spinning of the front half shafts and driveshaft because even greased hubs and bearings will transfer some inertia.

4A - Front Hubs locked - Transfer case sends zero power to the front Diff unless there is slippage detected by wheel speed sensors. The front wheels are now directly connected to the front half shafts, front Diff, and front driveshaft. It takes added energy(drag) to move those components.

4H - Front Hubs Locked - Transfer case sends a more fixed percentage of power forward to the Front Diff, more like a classic 4WD system. Only should be used off road and in conditions like snow.

4L - Front Hubs Locked - Tranfer case engages lower gearing an sends a more fixed percentage of power forward to the front dif.

Hope that helps...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro