Towing and offroading impressions

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duneslider

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I noticed this too. I don't like that it applies the brakes, at least as much as it does. I can't tell if it also applies the trailer brakes as well but I assume it does. IMHO it stayed on the brakes far too long for my comfort. Trailer drum brakes just don't handle prolonged braking like that very well.

We did Raton Pass this year going to/from CA. Good times.

I took off cruise control but the default shifting while in tow-haul was not restrictive enough for me and I'd steadily gain speed, requiring frequent brake applications. I started manually downshifting using the + and - buttons and usually had to drop 1-2 gears beyond where the computer had it in order to hold downhill speed. I tried to keep it no more than 3300 rpm.

Overall I'm a little disappointed in the downhill experience. I like that if you tap the brake it'll often drop a gear, but it seems to not do it beyond 2500-2800 rpm, which on the steeper grades isn't enough. And yes I slow down before the descent.

Is it bad to let it rev at 3500 rpm for extended downgrades?

That is interesting, there weren't a lot of really steep long grades on my recent trip, so I will be curious to see what it does when I do some of those. I felt the engine/transmission was doing a good job holding it back. If I braked a little it would down shift to match that speed and then hold it pretty good at that speed until I pressed the gas.

I wouldn't think there is any issues with the engine at 3500rpm while holding the load back, that is the engine holding it back. That is what I would experience in a manual transmission truck while engine braking. I am not 100% certain how these nefangled direct injection computer controls everything engines work in this case but typically it when you let off the accelerator it closes the thottle body valve which creates a vacuum and slows fuel delivery and the engine is trying to suck air which causes the drivetrain to slow down. In typical automatic transmissions it basically just freewheels/coasts but if the transmission programming can keep it engaged the vehicle will slow down or maintain a speed (depending on programming). That all said, the programming still might not be perfect since it can't see what you can see (tight turns, winding roads, traffic, etc.) Either way, the expedition auto transmission seemed to handle things better than any other automatic I have ever driven.

What year is yours? I heard the 2019 programming was better than 2018 and I heard you could take the 2018 in for a reflash and it would improve.
 
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duneslider

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For the towing gas mileage being similar to V-8s, it's not surprising. A turbo system pumps more air into the cylinder, more air means more fuel can be burned and higher energy explosions occur. Basically when fully utilizing the Boost, you are increasing the capacity of the motor. I saw somewhere but can't find it again that at high boost the system is doubling the volumetric capacity of the motor. In other words your 3.5L is operating like a 7.0L.

I've noticed in normal driving and when towing with the 6 speed, that it effortlessly stays in a high gear when my other vehicles would have downshifted under the same conditions. For example in normal flat driving My 17 expy is in 6th gear at 45mph running smoothly! How can this be? Well Ford says that the Ecoboost uses 90% of it's peak torque from 1,700 to 5,000 rpm. Other vehicles with V-8s don't get to peak torque until 4 to 5,000 rpm. That's a lot of grunt at low rpms. No wonder it doesn't have to downshift as much as others. Under low load while maintaining higher gears, that's where we get the greater gas mileage.


http://www.f150hub.com/specs/ecoboost.html

Good info, and makes sense. The ecoboost seems to have a ton of power down low. Boost is never fuel efficient at max load, that's why its so much fun. My hemi wasn't fuel efficient at any load though but it was fun.
 

PHIL NOWASKI

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I towed my 6000 lb. boat last year up a 5 1/2 mile 6% grade hwy. and did very well (2900RPM up grade at 65 mph). over all millage to Bass lake was 12.8 mpg. coming home was 13.2 mpg. round trip was 560miles. This last weekend went off-roading to Burro Schmidt tunnel in the Mojave desert the Expy performed better than I thought it would in 4 wheel drive.
 

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Duneslider, we share some similar results. I tow a 27' 9000#GVW travel trailer that weighs about 8200# on the scale including the tongue weight. My comparison was between an '02 Expy Eddy Bauer, 5.4l 2 valve Triton and 4spd in front of a 3.73ls and a '18 Expy Platinum Max, 3.6l EcoBoost and 10spd in front of a 3.37ls. Both have the HD Towing Package available at the time of manufacture. Neither has had any modifications other than a bug deflector on the front edge of the hood. I am retired and in no big hurry and while towing, I generally stay within 60-65mpg when traffic permits or I speed up if necessary while trying to maintain a safe stopping distance. Except for areas where the tranny would unnecessarily shift frequently, I generally use the cruise control for open highway.

For this apples to apples comparison, we towed this trailer from Texas to Alaska and back over the course of 4 months traveling north along the East Slope of the Rockies and back along the west coast and across Arizona and New Mexico. The distance was roughly 14,000 miles and about 10% of that was solo sightseeing adventures and 90% was towing on everything from flat and level interstates to day long stretches of barely 2-lane gravel with many grades mixed in on both types of roads. While the Platinum came with a slightly boosted version of the 3.6l that reportedly produces about 25 more hp on 91 octane vs 87, I stuck with 87 for these trips.

In 2014 we were obviously pulling with the '02 Expy. Overall fuel economy was 9.2mpg and necessary downshifts often bumped the tach to over 3500rpm. On extended grades like Raton Pass, I prefer to shift it to 2nd and drop in line behind the big trucks and climb at half throttle. Downhills on those type grades were also taken in 2nd with occasional light taps on the brakes to limit speed from the heavy trailer pushing us downhill. As be bought this Expy new in '01, none of this was new to us.

Last year we repeated this trip with the '18 Expy. Overall fuel economy was 11.9mpg, a bit over 20% improvement! As you noted, the tach rarely exceeded 2500rpm, but on a few 6% or greater pulls it did get up to about 2800rpm. This model also has Tow/Haul mode that I used. Also as you noted, it was always in the right gear, both up and down hill. What I was not anticipating was that if the cruise was set and going down hill, it not only downshifted to maintain the set speed, but activated the brakes if necessary. I first realized this by the reflection of the brake lights on the front of the trailer. There were times on rolling terrain that I would have preferred it to gather a bit of speed on the downhill and I'm sure those who were behind me wondered WTH I was doing. When I got into those situations, I switched off the cruise. Amazingly, the Expy sensed the downhill and did downshift, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't activating the brakes as it did with the cruise on.

In summary, the new Expy got exceptionally better overall MPG. It was much less tiring to drive. The interior ride was far smoother and quieter. The fake engine sound is pleasant to me, but seems corny, although it does sound like they tie the sound to the rpm and engine shifts and this sound seems slightly different depending on driving mode.

Wishes: Since Ford advertises this a great tow vehicle, they should offer extendable tow mirrors. I also wish the mode selector would remember the last used position.

@Fordalways I agree with your sentiments on the wishes. I really wish they had towing mirrors. I used some strap on mirrors and they are fine but it would sure be nice to have a factory looking option for tow mirrors. The mode selector remembering where you set it would be nice too. Not just for towing. I find it odd that if you set it to ECO it wouldn't remember that, since that seems to be a such a hot topic lately. Almost surprised the eco mode isn't the default. (I haven't determined if the eco mode actually gets better mileage though, haven't done enough driving with it to notice)

I'm not even sure my XLT does the fake engine noise, if it does, I haven't noticed.

That is interesting about the brake application and cruise control. I did notice downshifting to maintain speed on downhills without any input from me. The expedition holds speed really well on long downhills, almost as good as driving manual back in the day. I was very impressed, first auto I have ever driven that felt that good on downhills. This was very nice offroad on steeper dirt roads, I didn't feel like I had to ride the brakes to maintain a preferred speed.

I wonder if it would be possible to add the towing mirrors from an F150. I know they can be retrofitted to an F150 that doesn't have them, and the Expedition seems to take quite a few cues from it. Might even be from a F250, but it seems doable.
 

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If I recall from a prior discussion (1+ year ago) I think the issue with the towing mirrors is due in part to the windshield rake being more on the Expy vs the F150/F250...the triangle where the mirror attaches are different shapes between the trucks and the Expy so it won't fit.
 

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If I recall from a prior discussion (1+ year ago) I think the issue with the towing mirrors is due in part to the windshield rake being more on the Expy vs the F150/F250...the triangle where the mirror attaches are different shapes between the trucks and the Expy so it won't fit.

Ugh, what shit. Would probably take more effort than it's worth to retrofit it.
 

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Hello,

I Just recently bought a new 2018 Expedition XLT MAX with MAX TOW Package and have less than 5000 miles on it. Last week I bought a brand new travel trailer that weighs 4755 and it had a full tank of water weighing 400 pounds so 5155 (not verified on the scales, just going by the sticker) I’m also new to towing a travel trailer. I made my first tow from the trailer dealer to my house about 150 miles away last week. I had an Equ-a-lizer anti-sway WDH installed by the trailer dealer. About 40 miles into the tow I started to smell a burning smell but it went away then came back about 20 miles later. I got concerned and pulled over but the smell dissipated and I couldn’t pinpoint it. I’m not sure if it was in the truck or out at the truck brakes. Coincidentally, the service manager from the trailer dealer called me while I was pulled over and said said, “Oh, btw, if you have anti-sway or traction control on your truck you should disable it with this hitch”. Of course it was enabled, so I disabled it and didn’t experience that smell again for the next 100 miles home. Can anyone with heavy trailer towing experience with a similar setup to mine comment on my post with your opinions, experiences, etc. Was the service manager right to tell me to disable the trucks anti sway? Was the burning smell most likely the brakes or the controller?


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shane_th_ee

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There's no need to disable the "anti-sway" feature on the truck. I put it in quotes, because it's really just an automatic emergency sway recovery feature. It doesn't do anything to prevent sway, but does automatically perform the correct emergency actions (trailer brakes, etc) in the event of dangerous sway.

That said, did you check that the trailer brake controller is set up correctly? And if you think it's the trailer brakes getting hot, put your hand on the trailer's wheels and hubs. They should be cool enough to touch. If they're too hot to touch, it's a good indicator that there's a problem (which is causing your smell).
 

theLEFTseat

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There's no need to disable the "anti-sway" feature on the truck. I put it in quotes, because it's really just an automatic emergency sway recovery feature. It doesn't do anything to prevent sway, but does automatically perform the correct emergency actions (trailer brakes, etc) in the event of dangerous sway.

That said, did you check that the trailer brake controller is set up correctly? And if you think it's the trailer brakes getting hot, put your hand on the trailer's wheels and hubs. They should be cool enough to touch. If they're too hot to touch, it's a good indicator that there's a problem (which is causing your smell).


The controller is the stock one that
came with the max tow package. The only testing I did was to make sure the gain was set correctly by squeezing the handles while the truck was in drive in a stopped position after letting off the floor pedal, which is what the WDH installer said to do. The trailer brakes held the truck back which is what the installer said should happen. On the tow I didn’t notice any pushing or pulling of the truck by the trailer.



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Ilka Wagner

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So I haven't towed anything for a long time because I sold my last SUV years ago. I'm thinking about buying a used travel trailer. Anyone have experience towing something with a gross weight between 5k and 7k pounds with the Expedition? Also, I'm looking at some used Expeditions and Navigators, but I cannot tell from online advertisements which ones have the max towing package. It's frustrating. VIN numbers don't get me anywhere either. Any ideas how to check online?

I've been researching this quite a bit. If you look on the dash, you should see the integrated brake controller, will be to the right of the steering wheel, by the radio. Also, if you look at the door label, under "axle" it will have a 3L if it has 3.73 differential. It will also have a 7-pin connector at the hitch and a trans cooler in front of the radiator. These are things that have helped me confirm the HD tow if not on the ad. Also, some depends on the year model as well.
 

zoey2015

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So I haven't towed anything for a long time because I sold my last SUV years ago. I'm thinking about buying a used travel trailer. Anyone have experience towing something with a gross weight between 5k and 7k pounds with the Expedition? Also, I'm looking at some used Expeditions and Navigators, but I cannot tell from online advertisements which ones have the max towing package. It's frustrating. VIN numbers don't get me anywhere either. Any ideas how to check online?
I just went through the process to get a used Limited with the 302A and HD tow packages last week. Although not many have the HD tow on the used cars market, I have seen about one or two coming to the market every week under $55K with less than 30K miles. I used cars.com and autotrader and put "heavy-duty trailer" in the text filter to configure email notifications.

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duneslider

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Had another trailer towing trip and some more offroading, and some offroading with the trailer.

We found a sweet camp spot and decided to pull the trailer up a few days later to camp for a few days. The paved road up the canyon was narrow, steep, and winding. I got stuck behind an F150 towing a tractor and we were only going about 15-20 and that just was not enough speed to keep the transmission cool. It got warmer than I would have liked but not so warm I felt it was an issue. I really think we needed a little more speed to keep things cool. Once I hit the dirt roads I put it into 4L and the temps came down really quick and all was good temp wise for the rest of the tow. The roads ended up being a bit rougher than I remembered and the trailer wanted to drag here and there and I had to be careful not to rip the plumbing off. Never once felt like there was an issue with not enough power though, that was always great.

Coming back down the canyon was great too. Home for me is at about 4500ft and the camp spot was about 9300ft. We camped in the Heber Mountain area, the town of Heber is about 5600'. So, we went up 3700' in a relatively short distance and had to come back down that. On the dirt roads that were really steep I used the hill descent control and it maintained speed great and worked really well even with the trailer on. Very impressed with that and I even used it a bit on the paved roads on the steeper sections where the turns were tighter and I couldn't go faster than 20. Other wise, I kept it in tow/haul and it did well at maintaining speed with the occasional tap of the brakes to bring it down a little slower.

We went out on a few trails to let the kids play in some streams and ponds and I did find a few places where I rubbed the undercarriage a bit. My brother's chevy pickup rubbed too and it has a shorter wheelbase than the expedition. Only bigger tires and a lift would have helped.

Overall, I was very happy with the expedition and wouldn't hesitate to buy one again.
 
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duneslider

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Had another trailer towing trip and some more offroading, and some offroading with the trailer.

We found a sweet camp spot and decided to pull the trailer up a few days later to camp for a few days. The paved road up the canyon was narrow, steep, and winding. I got stuck behind an F150 towing a tractor and we were only going about 15-20 and that just was not enough speed to keep the transmission cool. It got warmer than I would have liked but not so warm I felt it was an issue. I really think we needed a little more speed to keep things cool. Once I hit the dirt roads I put it into 4L and the temps came down really quick and all was good temp wise for the rest of the tow. The roads ended up being a bit rougher than I remembered and the trailer wanted to drag here and there and I had to be careful not to rip the plumbing off. Never once felt like there was an issue with not enough power though, that was always great.

Coming back down the canyon was great too. Home for me is at about 4500ft and the camp spot was about 9300ft. We camped in the Heber Mountain area, the town of Heber is about 5600'. So, we went up 3700' in a relatively short distance and had to come back down that. On the dirt roads that were really steep I used the hill descent control and it maintained speed great and worked really well even with the trailer on. Very impressed with that and I even used it a bit on the paved roads on the steeper sections where the turns were tighter and I couldn't go faster than 20. Other wise, I kept it in tow/haul and it did well at maintaining speed with the occasional tap of the brakes to bring it down a little slower.

We went out on a few trails to let the kids play in some streams and ponds and I did find a few places where I rubbed the undercarriage a bit. My brother's chevy pickup rubbed too and it has a shorter wheelbase than the expedition. Only bigger tires and a lift would have helped.

Overall, I was very happy with the expedition and wouldn't hesitate to buy one again.
 

Artie

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Had another trailer towing trip and some more offroading, and some offroading with the trailer.

We found a sweet camp spot and decided to pull the trailer up a few days later to camp for a few days. The paved road up the canyon was narrow, steep, and winding. I got stuck behind an F150 towing a tractor and we were only going about 15-20 and that just was not enough speed to keep the transmission cool. It got warmer than I would have liked but not so warm I felt it was an issue. I really think we needed a little more speed to keep things cool. Once I hit the dirt roads I put it into 4L and the temps came down really quick and all was good temp wise for the rest of the tow. The roads ended up being a bit rougher than I remembered and the trailer wanted to drag here and there and I had to be careful not to rip the plumbing off. Never once felt like there was an issue with not enough power though, that was always great.

Coming back down the canyon was great too. Home for me is at about 4500ft and the camp spot was about 9300ft. We camped in the Heber Mountain area, the town of Heber is about 5600'. So, we went up 3700' in a relatively short distance and had to come back down that. On the dirt roads that were really steep I used the hill descent control and it maintained speed great and worked really well even with the trailer on. Very impressed with that and I even used it a bit on the paved roads on the steeper sections where the turns were tighter and I couldn't go faster than 20. Other wise, I kept it in tow/haul and it did well at maintaining speed with the occasional tap of the brakes to bring it down a little slower.

We went out on a few trails to let the kids play in some streams and ponds and I did find a few places where I rubbed the undercarriage a bit. My brother's chevy pickup rubbed too and it has a shorter wheelbase than the expedition. Only bigger tires and a lift would have helped.

Overall, I was very happy with the expedition and wouldn't hesitate to buy one again.
What did your trans temp get up to? How big a trailer?
 
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duneslider

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To be totally honest, I have no idea, I don't drive it much and haven't messed with the screens much and didn't realize it had a digital read out for the transmission. I just saw the needle climbing towards the yellow and it got this close | | to the yellow. Once I put it into 4L it dropped back to straight vertical pretty quick. So, not sure what temp that would be. Now that I know it has a digital readout I will keep an eye on it.

I am guessing this weekend the trailer weighed about 4500-4800lbs and the outside temp at that time was 85deg. On the highway towing up the mountain it never budged maintaining 65-70. On the trip to Moab it never budged either. It didn't budge until I was stuck pulling up a steep hill at 15mph, just not enough air flow at that speed and it was probably shifting a lot too there was a fair amount of speeding up and slowing down. I tried going to manual and just leaving it in 2nd but that didn't seem to make much difference.

The engine and oil temp gauges didn't seem to change much, if at all. My jeep commander with the hemi also got hot on this same pull, the transmission would go a touch over 240 and the engine coolant temp would get up pretty hot too and that was at a speed of 25-35. (speed limit is 25 on this section) My brother was ahead of me in front of the slow poke and he said his truck was in the 220's. That is when I realized I probably had a transmission temp gauge and went and looked. At that point the temp was at 211 after crawling up the mountain in 4L.
 

Artie

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To be totally honest, I have no idea, I don't drive it much and haven't messed with the screens much and didn't realize it had a digital read out for the transmission. I just saw the needle climbing towards the yellow and it got this close | | to the yellow. Once I put it into 4L it dropped back to straight vertical pretty quick. So, not sure what temp that would be. Now that I know it has a digital readout I will keep an eye on it.

I am guessing this weekend the trailer weighed about 4500-4800lbs and the outside temp at that time was 85deg. On the highway towing up the mountain it never budged maintaining 65-70. On the trip to Moab it never budged either. It didn't budge until I was stuck pulling up a steep hill at 15mph, just not enough air flow at that speed and it was probably shifting a lot too there was a fair amount of speeding up and slowing down. I tried going to manual and just leaving it in 2nd but that didn't seem to make much difference.

The engine and oil temp gauges didn't seem to change much, if at all. My jeep commander with the hemi also got hot on this same pull, the transmission would go a touch over 240 and the engine coolant temp would get up pretty hot too and that was at a speed of 25-35. (speed limit is 25 on this section) My brother was ahead of me in front of the slow poke and he said his truck was in the 220's. That is when I realized I probably had a transmission temp gauge and went and looked. At that point the temp was at 211 after crawling up the mountain in 4L.
Thanks for the info. We are in the market for an overland type trailer and one of my concerns has been towing while doing some off pavement driving. I’m guessing trailer will be about 4-4500 lbs and we’ll have our two kids and gear in the truck. We’ll do a bunch of trips here on the east coast but eventually will do some out west as well and we may just get a more dedicated 4x4 for the west trips like canyon land. My wife is getting ready for something new anyway.
 
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duneslider

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What are you planning to do in Canyonlands that you don't feel the Expedition can do? We are down in that area yearly and I wouldn't be concerned with the expedition in that area at all unless you are planning on some specific offroad adventure but I think the expedition can handle just about anything any other stock SUV can handle aside from a Jeep Wrangler.
 

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What are you planning to do in Canyonlands that you don't feel the Expedition can do? We are down in that area yearly and I wouldn't be concerned with the expedition in that area at all unless you are planning on some specific offroad adventure but I think the expedition can handle just about anything any other stock SUV can handle aside from a Jeep Wrangler.
We want to do the White Rim road for sure. On top of that we would like to do any number of off pavement over-landing. We took a month long honeymoon and spent it in the southwest in my Subaru Baja, we could get to most of the places we wanted but found that AWD just wasn’t enough to makes us feel confident. Now with kids and looking at the Conqueror trailers we are just now researching these types of trips with a larger vehicle and trailer so the list is just starting to grow as far as locations. We have both camped, hiked, and overlanded before we met but she had a 4Runner and I had that Baja, I’m not as experienced with a larger vehicle and kid level amounts of gear so there is a learning curve for us.
 
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duneslider

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I honestly don't think a 4runner can do much more than the expedition (stock to stock). A smaller vehicle would have a better approach, departure, and breakover but I just don't see you going on stuff that would be that difficult. I mean I saw a stock expedition go up baby lions back in moab. I do that in my wrangler but I don't think I am interested in doing that in my expedition but I guess it could do it.

The new jeep gladiator would be a sweet overland vehicle and will tow 7500lbs. The 4runners are only rated to tow 5000# so that trailer would have you maxed out or over the safe limit. A raptor would be cool and do what you want! The new Rangers look really nice and would be a little better offroad. All other options will feel cramped compared to the Expedition.

I would rock the Lincoln and ditch the 22's for some 18's and all terrains and go for it. Maybe look at the skid plate thread and add a few of those.

The first 4th Gen I saw was a Lincoln bombing a dirt road in Moab. That was when I realized my next suv wasn't going to be a Jeep (we had been waiting/hoping for the Grand Wagoneer to come out)
 
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