Cluster swap

[coolzzy]

Anyone know if I can swap in a replacement cluster from ebay into my 17 EL? My guage cluster displays on either side of the speedometer started flashing off for 5 seconds, on for 1 second in a loop today. I'm having a guage repair guy look at it tomorrow but if it's toast, will a new cluster have to be programmed by the dealer or will it read all pertinent info, like miles, from the vehicle computer?

Things I've already tried, disconnecting battery, master reset on stereo (which works fine, no trouble with head unit or any other electronics in the vehicle),pulled cluster fuse, no change in behavior. 53k miles on vehicle, only powertrain warranty left and I'm sure a dealer will bend me over on a replacement cluster. I can get a low miles unit for less than $150 on ebay....

 

[762mm]

Looks like a loose connection, bad ground or cracked solder point. If you're going to remove it anyway, you might as well check all plugs / wires coming to the cluster and redo the solder points in the back.

Before you do any soldering though, make sure it has good ground. Ford, GM and other manufacturers are known for weird electronic issues due to bad grounds and cracked solder points on electronic boards. So far I encountered this on an ABS module, 4x4 switch (GM truck) and lately on my Expedition's stereo.

I did a writeup of my stereo problem and how I solved it. My stereo had a similar common issue : a dead display.


https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/how-to-fix-your-stock-radio-dead-led-display.40743/

 

[coolzzy]

What is strange is that it is flashing in the exact same pattern all the time, 1 second on, 5 seconds off. I would think a bad solder joint would be intermittent or random, or off entirely. I'm thinking more like a bad capacitor on the board somewhere, but the timing of the flashing is constant. The speedometer is not affected, nor is the radio, blinkers, steering wheel controls, headlights, etc. It's just the two displays so they must share a common power source.

 

[762mm]

A bad capacitor would make sense as well, if it's at regular intervals. The cap charges up, the display lights up and then it discharges immediately and the display dies. LED/LCD big screen TV's used to have this problem about 10 years ago: they would attempt to turn on but die immediately due to bad caps. Some would not even turn on at all.

I'd start with that sort of diagnostic first. Bad capacitors can often be spotted by just looking at them to see if they are bulging or leaking. I fixed some computer motherboards like that in the past too (whenever manufacturers use cheap garbage Chinese capacitors).

Anyway, this is a far better and cheaper solution than buying a new cluster. If the repair fails, you can always replace it in the end, like you were planning on doing... As for programming it, I believe the cluster itself is just a display. The info about the mileage, trouble codes, etc actually lives in the main onboard computer of the truck and not in the instrument cluster.

Good luck!

 

[JExpedition07]

Hmm, I’m not very knowledgeable here but good luck! That would drive me insane lol.

 

[coolzzy]

I've got an appointment with a local company that repairs guage clusters. They're going to pull it tonight and get it back to me tomorrow if they can repair it. $200 if they can fix it, no charge if they can't. I contacted an ebay company that offers this service and they said they could not repair it and were not aware of anyone else that can to reccomend. That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy, but there is one on ebay for a reasonable price with 16k miles on it. If it's just a direct swap I'll go that route if the repair doesn't end up being possible. I find it strange that this hasn't happened to anyone else that I can find on the web. Good thing I guess, must be extremely rare.

 

[coolzzy]

Guage repair guy pulled the cluster, and thinks it's been replaced before. It's got magic marker all over and even inside on the circuit board. Like it's either been repaired before or replaced completely with a scrap yard unit. I bought this car from Ford Certified Pre owned, clean carfax, not sure I'll have any recourse. If the mileage is somehow wrong, I believe they have to buy it back right?

Hopefully the display just pulls the mileage from the computer though. The truck starts and runs just fine without the guage cluster hooked up so that could be a good indicator the dash is just a display. I'll know more in the morning. Thry said if it powers up fine on the bench then it's a problem with the computer and I have to go to dealer. If it flashes on the bench, they will take it apart and see if it's fixable....

 

[Blksmk]

I got mine a few months ago. The gauge cluster was swapped out. I have the original. Just getting my buddy to repair it, then it's going in...

 

[coolzzy]

So they are swappable without programming, provided the part numbers match?

 

[762mm]

I've read somewhere that the cluster on these is just a display. My 2014 SSV has normal analog-type gauges and old school warning lights on the dash... thank God! There are three main reasons these electronic board components will typically go bad: too hot (like Arizona), too cold (like Alaska) or vibrations (lots of off road use).

If the cluster works ok on the bench, do not assume the computer is shot. My money would be on the wiring or the plug connections. Check to see if all the pins on the plug end and cluster end are straight. Sometimes a pin can bend and short the whole component. Check at the other end too, wherever it is the cable plugs into the computer. Finally, check each wire for continuity (from the computer plug to the cluster plug).

 

[JExpedition07]

I've read somewhere that the cluster on these is just a display. My 2014 SSV has normal analog-type gauges and old school warning lights on the dash... thank God! There are three main reasons these electronic board components will typically go bad: too hot (like Arizona), too cold (like Alaska) or vibrations (lots of off road use).

If the cluster works ok on the bench, do not assume the computer is shot. My money would be on the wiring or the plug connections. Check to see if all the pins on the plug end and cluster end are straight. Sometimes a pin can bend and short the whole component. Check at the other end too, wherever it is the cable plugs into the computer. Finally, check each wire for continuity (from the computer plug to the cluster plug).

All the “analog gauges” and message centers on the 07-14s are computer controlled and don’t run off old school sending units on separate wires. It’s all a big computer board behind the gauges and message center area that just tell them where to go. Lose that and they all go haywire.

 

[762mm]

Yes, indeed. My 99 Explorer was the same type of a deal. The needles on the gauges were controlled by electric motors on a circuit board, but the input to tell them what to do was from the PCM.

They are still inherently more simple than mini LED displays on the cluster, though. The other thing is that if anything fails on the analog-style one, only that function is defective and won't work (speedometer, RPM meter, fuel gauge, temp gauge, etc). If something goes wrong with the LED display type, then you pretty much lose everything all at once.

I hate the new cars/trucks with all their useless electronic "bling", honestly. Many people would pay good money for a more basic and reliable design, myself included.

 

[coolzzy]

FYI for anyone else with a 15-17 expedition, the cluster swap is NOT plug and play. Mine was unable to be repaired so I ordered a replacement with 15k miles, also out of a 17 with the same part number as mine. It plugged in and it works correctly as far as the displays go (no flashing), but it must have come from a limited. It is reading miles from the donor vehicle, not mine, and has cross traffic alert and bliss warnings. My XLT does not have those options, or front parking sensors, all of which are greyed out but appear in the cluster options. And every time it is started a warning flashes for each on the left side display.

I sent both displays back to the cluster repair company across town, who said they can clone the old cluster to the new replacement by end of day. Fingers crossed. Total cost, including replacement cluster and programming will be $330. Ford cost on the cluster alone is around $750 plus whatever their programming cost is.

And the replacement cluster also has the same sharpie type marks all around the outer edge, but orange instead of red. It makes me wonder if they all look that way, or if it means mine has for sure been replaced. Still surprises I can't find anyone else reporting this kind of failure, must be extremely rare. The repair shop said the clusters are cheap because they never fail so there is no market for used ones. We'll see....

 

[star-art]

The cluster is an important module that acts as a "gateway" between different CANbus networks. I'm surprised you got your truck to start without it. I was under the impression it was also part of the passive security system and would not allow a vehicle to start unless it was in place.

The cluster stores a lot of info specific to your vehicle. This info must be retrieved and then copied over to any new cluster that gets installed in its place.

 

[coolzzy]

The shop used Ford IDS to set up the replacement cluster for the options on my truck, but were unable to correct the mileage. I've been driving it for the past week and a half with the new cluster and wrong miles indicated. The shop is hoping to have a solution by end of this week and will correct my miles plus what I've accrued since the swap.