2005 developed loud engine knock

[Hotrod]

Pulling a trailer on a long trip through the desert and the engine had a very distinct knock at idle when we pulled in for gas. Well I have read enough about this 5.4 3V engine to know it is likely the cam phaser. It's louder on the right bank but what is odd though is the knocking is so much louder sounding at the bellhousing.

I took it to 3 independent mechanics, although I did not leave it for a diagnosis they all felt it was cam phaser associated as well. Estimates for timing job were $2,700 low to $3,500 high, using OEM parts but did not include the upgraded oil pump. The engine just hit 153,000 and has been meticulously maintained, so hope there is nothing else wrong.

Decided to drop it off at the Ford dealer for a diagnosis and estimate, fingers crossed waiting to see if they are reasonable or if this is going to be the final swan song. Just in case been looking at 2017 model as a replacement, new ones are just too darn expensive.

 

[red-russian1]

We had exactly the same thing happen with our '05. I changed to 10w-30 and replaced both CVT solenoids and it got better but it's still there. Some of our knock/tick is the RH exhaust manifold though and I just haven't replaced it yet. Ours has been running the same way for about 2 years now and hasn't gotten worse. We're hoping to just trade up to a newer 3/4 ton soon.

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[Hotrod]

I used my stethoscope on the R/manifold and didn't sound like a leak, clear metal on metal knock sound. Left bank phaser was a whirling sound right one had the knock.

I am in CA so never gets very cold, although I run the recommended 5-20 syn blend oil I add the Lucas high mileage additive so not sure if that changes the weight at all. I also religiously change the oil every 3,500 miles. I was getting the start up rattle for the last year but was very brief. One mechanic said drive it till it blows, probably go another 30K miles like this.....Since we tow with it probably not the best idea as my luck would get stuck in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Jb14]

Hotrod, Is it a tick or a knock? the phasers are an issue and will have the ticking noise but a knock is different. With these 3v, a rocker can break off to create the knock. Note you can get a remanufactured engine for around the same cost as quoted for repair (not including labor) A legitimate shop normally charges 2300 to 2500 to do just the phaser job including a melling oil pump.

 

[Jb14]

Hotrod, Is it a tick or a knock? the phasers are an issue and will have the ticking noise but a knock is different. With these 3v, a rocker can break off to create the knock. Note you can get a remanufactured engine for around the same cost as quoted for repair (not including labor) A legitimate shop normally charges 2300 to 2500 to do just the phaser job including a melling oil pump.

 

[Hotrod]

This is the video I took, hopefully the link works. Replacement engine with labor is far too much to spend on this vehicle, I will let someone else take that one on. Still waiting for the call from Ford. At cold start it has a brief rough idle, when warm it runs smooth as can be with no loss in power noted.

 

[red-russian1]

This is the video I took, hopefully the link works. Replacement engine with labor is far too much to spend on this vehicle, I will let someone else take that one on. Still waiting for the call from Ford. At cold start it has a brief rough idle, when warm it runs smooth as can be with no loss in power noted.

Wow, that's a loud knock!

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[Aspen03]

That seems awful loud for a phaser issue. I've only heard a couple with it and maybe it's just the mic on your camera but that is significantly louder than anything I've ever heard.

 

[Hotrod]

I saw this video which sounded almost exactly the same and it is the phaser. Still waiting on Ford dealer to call me with their diagnosis, they have had it 2 days now.

 

[Hotrod]

Well got the bad news, technician says the knock is diagnosed as internal and likely in the block not the valve train, they quote new engine at $9,300.....LOL. Not sure I buy this diagnosis considering how well it runs and no codes. But looking like it's time to replace. Would hate to do a timing job then still have the knock.

Appears all the new Expy's have the 3.5 twin turbo, questioning the lifespan of the turbos and motor with the high pressures they run.

 

[TomB985]

Well got the bad news, technician says the knock is diagnosed as internal and likely in the block not the valve train, they quote new engine at $9,300.....LOL. Not sure I buy this diagnosis considering how well it runs and no codes. But looking like it's time to replace. Would hate to do a timing job then still have the knock.

Yikes… That's a raw deal.

Appears all the new Expy's have the 3.5 twin turbo, questioning the lifespan of the turbos and motor with the high pressures they run.

I think you'd be surprised. Those engines have been in production for more than a decade, and some have seen a lifetime of really long, hard use. A few years ago I found a thread in another forum with a couple examples over 300,000 miles with nothing more than regular oil and spark plug changes.

They're not flawless, but by most accounts far more reliable than the 3V 5.4. I have owned two in the past and towed heavy with one of them, that power curve makes my 5.4 seem like a Briggs & Stratton.

 

[Aspen03]

That's what I was afraid of, I'd lean towards not valvetrain as well just by the intensity of the sound if it truly sounds like your video, it also sounds like its coming from down lower in the motor. Again, extremely hard to tell from a video but my observation/guess.

I know several w an EcoBoost that haven't regretted it. SHO, MKT, 3 F150's, 2 Expeditions, and a flex in the mix. None have had any severe issues, just required maintenance and random things here or there. I wouldn't hesitate to own one, though I'd have something w a warranty only because I dont have the 9k just sitting here should a motor suddenly grenade itself. As you can see it's not much better cost wise either way. At least you'll get better mpg for it. Well, maybe if you keep your foot out of it. Fat chance for the first several thousand miles I'm sure while you enjoy new power.

Of them 2 of the F150s have north of 150k, everyone else I know is under 100k. The MKT owner has a 2013 and is just shy of 50k.

 

[Hotrod]

Update - Picked up the Expy and saw the technician's diagnostic notes. It says "no codes indicated, phaser and timing chains are confirmed knocking, deeper knock in the engine under load, based on the location, sound of knock and mileage recommend new engine". The service writer stated their heavy engine repair technician is "one of their best" and trusts his analysis.

So while Driving it home from the dealer it nearly stalled out at 1,500 rpm accelerating from a stop, big time stumble and then it regained power and smoothed out, then did it again 3 or 4 times on the 4 mile drive home. It was very random on when it would stumble, AC was off and it was not in overdrive. Got home and the knock is much worse now and almost won't idle. Now I am puzzled as it was running smooth as silk just knocking when I dropped it off, now it's undriveable. Can't help but wonder if the diagnostic process caused further damage to it. Talk about sick to my stomach, I loved this truck, really saddens me to see it go like this.

So I figured I better get started on finding a replacement. Hit a few local dealers, started with a 2019 Tahoe LT which was at a Kia dealer, it was a rental veh with 30K on it. I must say I was not impressed with the mid-range power, the interior amenities were a little weak, also much smaller cargo area than what our 2005 has. Brakes required a lot of pedal pressure not sure if that was this particular veh or if they are all like this. Also noted it's hard to see out the sides on lane changes as the window glass is smaller due to high door lines, especially the quarter glass. However the worst part was the handling, it was terribly soft and unpredictable. There is minimal road feel and quick steering input really got the chassis upset quick. I could see this thing being a bit of a handful towing with a side wind.

Then I test drove a new 2020 Expedition XLT, The interior was super roomy, large cargo space behind 2nd row like what I am used to, nice dash design and center console, lots of storage and comfortable seats. Much better visibility as well. It had the faux leather upholstery in all black, which I really don't care for as it makes it so hard to see things inside at night. But this vehicle really shines on the road, the motor is crazy fast makes my 2005 feel like a lead sled. The brakes were excellent feel and modulation, and handling was night and day better very solid feel. This would be a very comfortable vehicle on long drives.

The downside, prices are up there, about $60K out the door. So now hoping to find a low mileage one in the used market.

 

[JExpedition07]

That ain’t a camphaser, you are losing a rocker arm I think. Camphaser is a slow knock. The valve cover needs to be pulled to inspect them, it’s a $4 part. I’d pull the valve cover before I condemned the truck. Besides the timing set woes I trust the 5.4 Triton more than the EcoBoost long term myself. But I did the timing set work myself when issues popped up lol....so my 5.4 wasn’t trouble free. The 5.4 is a deep skirt cast iron engine with forged pistons and no boost...it’s got a good recipe for longevity when the plastic timing set is replaced or removed from the equation. The gen 1 EcoBoosts often suffer timing set failure at about the same interval as the 5.4 3V for the most part. The EcoBoost uses one timing chain for both banks and it tends to stretch and start to rattle...if not addressed it jumps time. Tons of these threads on the F-150 forums. The EcoBoost is also well known for cam-phaser failures...look in the 2018+ section how many have had failed camphasers under warranty. Besides that the 18+ is better because they improved the timing set for a twin chain setup. The EcoBoost is great/ mostly reliable and pulls hard. But it’s not realistic to sit there and say it’s a golden goose in reliability as it’s got it’s own set of problems. They are just newer at this point lol.

 

[CountrySplatt]

Yup, that is scary. I noticed that ticking sound on our 2004 EB about a year ago. Having driven Hondas and Toyotas for YEARS, I dismissed that ticking. In the last few months, I noticed a discernable drop in power. We have only put about 6000mi in the past year, but are getting ready to be moving to a new house over 2hrs away. I am thinking I will be having that same sinking feeling you are right now. We only about about 213k miles on ours, but there haven't been a lot of issues with it over the years.

 

[Uberexpy]

That sounds exact like my ‘05 used to sound. Mine was the rear intake roller follower on #3 cylinder. I did the entire timing job and a Melling hi pressure/flow oil pump. Mileage was 99,000 when I did it. 125,000 on it now. I replaced all the roller followers & lash adjusters with the new style.

 

[red-russian1]

That sounds exact like my ‘05 used to sound. Mine was the rear intake roller follower on #3 cylinder. I did the entire timing job and a Melling hi pressure/flow oil pump. Mileage was 99,000 when I did it. 125,000 on it now. I replaced all the roller followers & lash adjusters with the new style.

How much did that run you?

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[Hotrod]

I ended up buying a Toyota Sequoia as a replacement, will give the 5.7 iForce a go. So far the power makes my old Expy feel like a dog.

Plan is to pull the R/H valve cover and give it a look see to see if the issue is obvious like a cam follower, can also check for timing chain play. I turned the motor over by hand and rocked it and I feel zero clunking or anything obvious in the crank.

 

[Uberexpy]

How much did that run you?

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I paid about $1200 for the parts and did it myself. Used only Motorcraft parts, except the oil pump.

 

[Don Hall]

......... they quote new engine at $9,300......