E85 tune?
- Thread starter Blue87GT
- Start date
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There are NO canned tunes for E85.
There is only one Tuner I know of writing Stock Pump/E85 tunes for the 4th Gen Expedition and that is ZFG.
Our 2020 runs it daily.
Here is proof of our last fillup for the doubters, and Dragy of it 0-60.
This is a 2020, Max, Limited(Fully Optioned) on factory 22’s. Your MPG WILL go down.
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99WhiteC5Coupe
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E85 fuel has less energy per gallon, when compared to conventional gasoline: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_benefits.html
As such, when using E85 fuel - you will see a reduction in your miles-per-gallon (compared to conventional gasoline).
Mac Attack
Active Member
That's impressive @LokiWolf
Do you have aftermarket high and low pressure fuel pumps?
I sometimes run an effective e25 blend with my JB4 and 26psi boost (Raptor engine in a Navigator), and that's as high as I can go because my fuel rail pressure drops dangerously low (to the point where afrs might be affected if I keep my foot on it).
Do you have aftermarket high and low pressure fuel pumps?
I sometimes run an effective e25 blend with my JB4 and 26psi boost (Raptor engine in a Navigator), and that's as high as I can go because my fuel rail pressure drops dangerously low (to the point where afrs might be affected if I keep my foot on it).
Yes, and mentioned that above. The cost saving at least where I am is more than the %MPG loss. Not to mention the power gain.
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Nothing added. Just E85 in the tank, and ZFG’s E85(Stock Hardware) tune loaded.
That is a few revisions in. The baseline is VERY safe and it is dialed in from there.
Yeah, if the JB4 is designed for Pump Gasoline then it will not be able to adjust for Higher Ethanol levels.
I could actually get MORE power out of E50 than E85 with stock hardware, but then the wife would have to mix. It would probably be good for about 2 10ths.
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He is not accepting new customers right now, but will be soon. He has a waiting list on his website. Well worth the wait!
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Mike Wolfe
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BTW
Ethanol is a carbon neutral fuel
When it is consumed a certain amount of carbon is released into the atmosphere
However when the plants are grown that are used to make it they remove an equal amount of carbon from the atmosphere
That is why it is carbon neutral
Ethanol has an octane rating of 113
E85 is about 108 octane
Usually the loss in mileage is offset by the lower cost of the fuel when compared to premium gasoline
Ethanol is a carbon neutral fuel
When it is consumed a certain amount of carbon is released into the atmosphere
However when the plants are grown that are used to make it they remove an equal amount of carbon from the atmosphere
That is why it is carbon neutral
Ethanol has an octane rating of 113
E85 is about 108 octane
Usually the loss in mileage is offset by the lower cost of the fuel when compared to premium gasoline
FlyBry
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Can I deduce, our stock fuel pumps are safe to use E85?
99WhiteC5Coupe
Full Access Members
Only if the vehicle was designated and manufactured for use of E85 fuel.
Vehicles designed to use E85 fuel have various “hardened” fuel system parts, to withstand the corrosiveness of the fuel.
Mike Wolfe
Full Access Members
Retired automotive fuel systems engineer here
Everything built to run E10 has to be ethanol compatible
Must be that way so any mix from E10 to E100 will not damage fuel system components
However injectors, HP fuel pumps must have adequate capacity to accommodate the higher flow rates needed
When ZFG does a E85 calibration he must limit his calibration to one that is acceptable with the flow rates of the stock injectors, HP fuel pump etc.
If the injectors & HP fuel are upgraded than much higher HP & Torque ratings are possible due to the very high octane & the latent heat of evaporation of the ethanol
Everything built to run E10 has to be ethanol compatible
Must be that way so any mix from E10 to E100 will not damage fuel system components
However injectors, HP fuel pumps must have adequate capacity to accommodate the higher flow rates needed
When ZFG does a E85 calibration he must limit his calibration to one that is acceptable with the flow rates of the stock injectors, HP fuel pump etc.
If the injectors & HP fuel are upgraded than much higher HP & Torque ratings are possible due to the very high octane & the latent heat of evaporation of the ethanol
Yep! Ran it in our 2017 for over a year. I have about 8K on it in my 2020, out of 12K. I also run E50 in my 2020 Explorer ST, and ran E70 in my 2016 Edge.
Anybody who tells you the fuel system can’t handle it doesn’t understand chemistry or modern engine manufacturing.
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FlyBry
Full Access Members
Thanks Gents, appreciate the knowledge. Ran E85 in the 2010 Limited EL every chance I could when it was cheap in the Dallas area.
HaHaHa. You are stuck in 30 years ago. This is NOT the case with any modern fuel system. Please STOP spreading this misinformation.
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Thanks! People have a hard time understanding the first part!!!
He does. Adam@ZFG is very knowledgeable on running Ethanol.
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99WhiteC5Coupe
Full Access Members
If you will look up random fuel system components for vehicles, why then are different components (different part numbers) specified for E85 designed vehicles and non-E85 vehicles?
Why do manufacturers use a different (labeled) fuel cap or fuel filler opening for E85 vehicles?
I reviewed the vehicle owner’s manual for my 2015 Expedition Limited and it cautions not to use fuel with more than 15% ethanol or E85 fuel, unless the vehicle is designated a FFV (flex fuel vehicle).
I am not spreading misinformation - and you are simply wrong.
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It has to do with tuning and whether the fuel system can handle the additional flow requirements for E85 at full demand in all conditions.
It has ZERO to do whether the fuel system can handle the physical fuel.
Let me give you an example. There is a version of the 5.0 Coyote in the F-150 that is FFV certified. The Expedition, and the rest of the 150’s use the exact same tank, fuel lines, and pump, and the injectors in the FFV and Non-FFV are the same. The reason for the difference is a sensor, and tuning.
All the fuel lines and components are designed to handle the increased solvency of Ethanol vs Gasoline in modern vehicles. If it can handle E15 it can handle E85.
PS - My degree is chemistry.
PSS - The guy above who actually did fuel systems for a living also said the same thing.
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Also for clarity…I am not stating this stuff based on theory. I have run above E30 in now 5 EcoBoost powered Fords. 3 of them Expeditions.
Our 2015 ran E30 for several tank fulls. I was not using ZFG at the time. The tuners maximum for that 3rd Gen, 1st Gen 3.5TTEB was E30.
When I started doing Tuning on my 16 Edge Sport, I started working with Adam@ZFG, and he is REALLY good, especially at tuning for Ethanol. We pushed what the Stock Pump could handle at full tilt. I ran E70 in it for 9 Months straight. Before that we worked up from E30 to E50 then to E70. It was traded in at 48K, 26K of that was E30 or higher.
Our 17 Expedition replaced the 15, ran on E50 or E85 many many times. We used it A LOT for travel, so it stayed on a 93 tune most of the 40K we owned it.
The 2020 Explorer that replaced my Edge, daily’s on E50.
The 2020 Expedition daily’s currently on E85.
This is actual experience, no BS.
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Our 2015 ran E30 for several tank fulls. I was not using ZFG at the time. The tuners maximum for that 3rd Gen, 1st Gen 3.5TTEB was E30.
When I started doing Tuning on my 16 Edge Sport, I started working with Adam@ZFG, and he is REALLY good, especially at tuning for Ethanol. We pushed what the Stock Pump could handle at full tilt. I ran E70 in it for 9 Months straight. Before that we worked up from E30 to E50 then to E70. It was traded in at 48K, 26K of that was E30 or higher.
Our 17 Expedition replaced the 15, ran on E50 or E85 many many times. We used it A LOT for travel, so it stayed on a 93 tune most of the 40K we owned it.
The 2020 Explorer that replaced my Edge, daily’s on E50.
The 2020 Expedition daily’s currently on E85.
This is actual experience, no BS.
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Mac Attack
Active Member
@LokiWolf
That's why I'm surprised you're so quick 0-60. I'm tapped out with the stock fuel pumps running an e30 mix and its the reason why I asked my earlier question what pumps you're running.
The jb4 has selectable boost based on fuel octane (including ethanol mixes) and mods. My 0-60 is slow because I can't get a good launch, but I run a 12.7 second quarter mile in an otherwise stock Navigator L with the heavy 22's.
That's why I'm surprised you're so quick 0-60. I'm tapped out with the stock fuel pumps running an e30 mix and its the reason why I asked my earlier question what pumps you're running.
The jb4 has selectable boost based on fuel octane (including ethanol mixes) and mods. My 0-60 is slow because I can't get a good launch, but I run a 12.7 second quarter mile in an otherwise stock Navigator L with the heavy 22's.
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