Trade in Expedition for Navigator?

[mcb345]

I bought a 2019 CPO Expedition Special Edition in October and even with throwing on 8k miles KBB is saying my car has appreciated due to this crazy car market.

I want to bite the bullet and make the jump to the car I was really wanting to get previously but didn’t want to spend the cash.

Has anyone else made the jump from the Gen 4 Expy to the newer Nav that can provide their input? I’d go from Limited 302a Expy to the Nav with Reserve package as they seem to be comparable in terms of features but of course a few more on the Nav like heads up display and 24 or 30 way power seats.

Money isn’t really the concern. I have problems with my Expy with rattle (cam phasers replaced but still rattling) but I do have a 125k mile Ford extended warranty so not really worried I just want a car I can 100% be happy with as I’ve typically been a luxury car buyer and I believe with the Navigator I’d be happy for a while.

I know @Deadman hates it after reading his post!

 

[Calidad]

I have a Loaded Platinum and only just recently it seems lots of leased Navi’s are popping up in my area typically all blacked out. Its almost comical.
I’d rather have my HD Platinum than the lease package Ford has created and every yahoo with a cash flow for a lease now drives a 90k ride lol.

 

[mcb345]

I have a Loaded Platinum and only just recently it seems lots of leased Navi’s are popping up in my area typically all blacked out. Its almost comical.
I’d rather have my HD Platinum than the lease package Ford has created and every yahoo with a cash flow for a lease now drives a 90k ride lol.

Yes, the Select and Premier packages they offered originally were sad for the price, huge rip off. Reserve is the value for the used market right now with all the options we have in our Expy’s and more.

I know they’re basically the same cars but would be nice to cash in on the appreciation of the Expy now!

Mid cycle refresh for the Nav is this year. I assume that wouldn’t affect the used Nav market though with lowering prices like it does for the remaining new models that aren’t freshed?

 

[grumpyoleman]

We just traded in our '18 XLT Max w/202 package on a '19 Navigator L. I was given just a few (like 5) thousand less than I paid for the Expy brand new. So yes, the used market is more than a little strange right now. Anyway, here is the highlights/lowlights in comparison;

Ride
I always loved my Expy's ride. Smooth and stable. But the Navigator is even smoother. I know someone else on this site says their Navi is harsh, but I don't see it, or rather "feel it".

Power
I know Navi has like 75 more HP and more torque, but I don't feel it. Probably because of increased weight, but my Butt Dyno says the Expy is quicker (I really wanted to say "sportier" but then I remembered this is an Expy we are talking about). But the Navi is still crazy quick for land yacht.

Handling
Navi has a more "luxury" feel to it while driving but is still very responsive. I will say, the Navi feels bigger while driving. I always felt the Expy drove smaller than it was. The Navi? Not so much. Not sure why since they are the same platform, but for me there is definitely a different feel. Not better/not worse - just different

Interior
This is what got me.... Ok, I am comparing a fully loaded XLT with a Navigator, I get it. A Platinum might not be so obviously worlds apart, but my goodness, the Navi is in a whole different class than everyone else when it comes to the materials and design of the interior. Can't explain it all, just gotta try one out for yourself.

You do lose some towing due to increased weight with the Navi.

 

[mcb345]

Thanks @grumpyoleman that’s exactly the type of info I’m looking for!

I get the ride and power might differ a little but for me it’s about owning the car for a while and loving it. I really like my Expedition but the interior is meh since I’m coming from smaller vehicles but more upscale manufacturers.

It seems like the jump up on interior quality and materials is night and day.

 

[Deadman]

The Navigators Horses only show up when you rev it to the moon. Down low my Expedition feels stronger.

The seats are great, but the headrest ****** me off as it hurts my neck.

I honestly don't think its worth the upgrade, but my Navigators also a POS so I'm a little biased.

I'd assume you will have to pay way too much for a Navigator in this market, so its gonna cost a bunch even if you get good money from yours.

 

[grumpyoleman]

Deadman brings up a good point. It does not matter if they give you inflated $'s for your trade if they charge you inflated $'s for your purchase. Makes it a wash.

I found a vehicle that was advertised well below book and negotiated a deal before bringing up our trade. To be honest, they were fairly strong on the first offer, but it took some old fashioned horse trading to get them to the point we were happy.

In the end, they sold my Expy already at a profit and we are happy with the deal we received.

 

[mcb345]

Deadman brings up a good point. It does not matter if they give you inflated $'s for your trade if they charge you inflated $'s for your purchase. Makes it a wash.

I found a vehicle that was advertised well below book and negotiated a deal before bringing up our trade. To be honest, they were fairly strong on the first offer, but it took some old fashioned horse trading to get them to the point we were happy.

In the end, they sold my Expy already at a profit and we are happy with the deal we received.

Yes, I’d have to hold out for a good deal on the Navi (few and far between but they exist) and then negotiate the trade in. I have a dollar in mind that makes the trade worthwhile and if that can’t be achieved then it’s a no go.

I always like to approach anything in sales with the approach of how do we both benefit from this transaction so if I can find a dealer willing to play that game then it will work out.

 

[Deadman]

Yes, I’d have to hold out for a good deal on the Navi (few and far between but they exist) and then negotiate the trade in. I have a dollar in mind that makes the trade worthwhile and if that can’t be achieved then it’s a no go.

I always like to approach anything in sales with the approach of how do we both benefit from this transaction so if I can find a dealer willing to play that game then it will work out.

All this inflated market is doing is making you work with bigger numbers. You aren't saving any money. Both will be extremely hi, so you just pay that difference in the end. Its not gonna be as cheap as most people are expecting right now. First off you might not even find one, they can't even make the darn things right now.

 

[Anerbe]

I was tempted a bit with the Navi and took some for extended / overnight test drives. I just couldn't find any with the necessary options i was looking for (HDTow, Bench second). Most had the center console/captains, which for me is the worst case with kids.

Navi is definitely a smooth ride, but I found it a bit less connected than the expedition on the road (Expy felt a bit more alive on road).

 

[Anerbe]

I was tempted a bit with the Navi and took some for extended / overnight test drives. I just couldn't find any with the necessary options i was looking for (HDTow, Bench second). Most had the center console/captains, which for me is the worst case with kids.

Navi is definitely a smooth ride, but I found it a bit less connected than the expedition on the road (Expy felt a bit more alive on road).

 

[mcb345]

Yup, the captains chairs with the center console aren't exactly kid friendly for families with 3 kids or more! I did notice the Reserve package seems to have a handful with captains chairs and no center console, that's what I'd be after.

@Deadman I know what you mean about buying inflated. Had I done this initially I would have bought the Navi at a 10% cheaper price most likely but now the spread theoretically could be a bit more with both cars appreciating 10%. We're in a similar situation with our house. 40% appreciation in our area in 4 years means that more expensive larger house is very very very expensive now.

Interesting to hear that the driving dynamics of the Navi aren't quite as connected, I think a few have mentioned that. I'll need to get behind the wheel to check that out.

 

[NyackRob79]

Personally, not interested in such an upgrade. I prefer our Platinum Expy MAX to Navigator. Why? I had a loaner Navigator and my impressions were - you're just flaunting wealth everywhere you go. Everyone looks at you as the guy with cash pouring out of his wallet. Pull into a parking garage in Manhattan? Everyone expects tips, or you better photograph every square inch of your vehicle before they check it in. A guy asking for change at a red light? He's going to single you out and make it his day to collect something. Get into a fender-bender? Expect the other party to claim injury because the guy with the Navigator has cash and is probably well-insured. Lastly, perception. Everywhere you go you'll stick out like a sore thumb. Unless you live in town where Navigators and Escalades are standard-issue soccer-mom mobiles, expect to be the rich guy in the crowd.

Personally, I just don't care to draw that type of attention. I use it as a daily in addition to hauling our family around. Often park at Home Depot parking lot to get things for the house. Often have my 5x9' utility trailer hooked up. I can't imagine doing any type of towing with the Navi. It's more of a VIP limousine than a everyday car. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mcb345]

I do like the stealthy aspect of the Expy but I also do live in “that town” where a Navigator isn’t anything special and is a dime a dozen.

Cant say out in the burbs I valet a whole lot but in the city I could see that being painful.

I guess I’m asking the wrong crowd about the upgrade since this is the Expy forum haha.

 

[mcb345]

Let me ask this, what are the top 3 benefits of the Navigator upgrade vs Expy for those that have both or made the switch?

 

[Deadman]

Let me ask this, what are the top 3 benefits of the Navigator upgrade vs Expy for those that have both or made the switch?

The seats is the only one I've found.

Otherwise its just a bigger PITA. I hate the throw on POS wanna-be I-pad on the dash that was a total after thought, I hate the stupid shift buttons, etc.... Its really no better. My wife wishes daily that hers was an Expedition because of this stuff.......

 

[grumpyoleman]

Agree on the seats. We road trip ... alot ... and the Navi is so much more comfortable for us on a long trip. Funny thing is, the Expy was excellent, but the Navi is that good and more for road tripping.

 

[mcb345]

The seats is the only one I've found.

Otherwise its just a bigger PITA. I hate the throw on POS wanna-be I-pad on the dash that was a total after thought, I hate the stupid shift buttons, etc.... Its really no better. My wife wishes daily that hers was an Expedition because of this stuff.......

haha well damn, it's too bad your Navi is having so many problems otherwise I'd say let's trade!

The seats and a better suspension would make it worthwhile for me. The iPad like screen is pretty obnoxious, I think the new models will be even worse unfortunately with a big vertical screen!

Anymore Positives? All the written reviews and video reviews talk about how amazing the interior quality is. Would you say it actually does offer better quality? Less creaking maybe? I hate plastic everywhere in my car. Coming from Lexus and Acura they do a good job of limiting that but Ford obviously gives zero sh*ts about using boring looking plastic.

 

[mcb345]

Agree on the seats. We road trip ... alot ... and the Navi is so much more comfortable for us on a long trip. Funny thing is, the Expy was excellent, but the Navi is that good and more for road tripping.

See, this is what I like to hear!

I somewhat need to be convinced here to make this upgrade. @Deadman definitely isn't trying to convince me haha.

Roadtrips is where the expedition disappoints me a little. It's nice for around town, handles nice enough, can toss my kids stuff in and out without caring TOO much and having weathertec all over doesn't look terrible in that type of truck. But for long road trips, I want to be coddled in a NICE leather seat not a disappointing questionable materials "leather" seat. I also got the tan color interior (which I like more than black) but the color looks like it's straight out of 1999, not tan but more of an ugly tan. I'd love a nice saddle brown or light tan legit leather to sink in for an 8-12hr trip. Heads Up Display for roadtrips would be pretty clutch as well.

Does the Lane Keep Assist on the Navigator work any better than the Expedition? I assume it's not lane centering but just Lane Keep that bounces you off the lines?

 

[Deadman]

haha well damn, it's too bad your Navi is having so many problems otherwise I'd say let's trade!

The seats and a better suspension would make it worthwhile for me. The iPad like screen is pretty obnoxious, I think the new models will be even worse unfortunately with a big vertical screen!

Anymore Positives? All the written reviews and video reviews talk about how amazing the interior quality is. Would you say it actually does offer better quality? Less creaking maybe? I hate plastic everywhere in my car. Coming from Lexus and Acura they do a good job of limiting that but Ford obviously gives zero sh*ts about using boring looking plastic.

The interior is hands down nicer no doubt, but honestly I'm not a fancy kinda person, so that does nothing for me. But it is by far nicer. I really can't use the interior for anything, so its not important at all to me personally. I'm more of a function guy....

When you say the "better suspension would make it worthwhile"...... My 302A Expedition rides far smoother than this Black Label Navigator does. The Navigator has extremely stiff suspension, you can feel EVERY joint in the highway if it's concrete. My expedition is much softer and far more comfortable. My kids are 6 and 8 and they always say, "Moms Navi rides super rough compared to yours dad!". We all agree my Expedition is far more comfortable riding, but the seats are better in Navigator. When we go cross country we take my Expedition because its so much smoother, AND because the POS Navigator we have rarely runs. lol.

If you have kids to put in the 2nd row, you will HATE the Navigator. The Navigators front seats are literally 3-4X as THICK front to back as the Expedition front seats, so when you go to put kids into the second row of the Navigator there isn't crap for room between the front seats and the 2nd row seats. Its horrible, my wife hates that about hers and then hers has the TV's in the seats, so they stick out another couple inches. Its like crawling into a compact car in comparison to mine for entry......

Not even trying to pick on the Lincoln, but honestly it just "over complicates everything" that is so simple in the Expedition. Some of the radio stuff can only be adjusted on that stupid screen, and I hate that.

The 4wd in the Lincoln is a hassle, you need to dick around with all those babysitter drive modes to find one that happens to have 4wd in it. My Ford I touch the 4A button on the console and forget about everything else. Again, it just over complicates EVERYTHING. If you like that complicated BS, then you will love it. I'm a mechanical guy that would rather have a 6 speed manual transmission in this thing. lol.

Oh, I do like the heads up display in the Lincoln.

Rear seat belts are airbag seatbelts, so most carseats say they will NOT be compatible, so check yours......

The mufflers on the Navigators beller like crazy, so if you like that racket you will enjoy hearing that exhausts ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the time. It drones enough that my wife took it back to dealer 3X for this and we decibel tested brand new ones and they are all identical and sound obnoxious in the cabin. My Expedition is 1/3 as loud in comparison. This is hands down my wifes single biggest complaint. Get it on the highway at 70 mph and set the cruise and then shut all the radio and blowers off and just listen to it droneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. UGH

They're not bad vehicles, but its just not my style I guess. Go drive one and see if you like it.