Install F150 Bilstein 5100 or 6112 products on my 2004 Expedition?

[Vincent Vega]

I have a 2004 Exp and am considering installing the Bilstein 5100 or 6112 adjustable-height shocks (made for the F150) on the front of my Exp to improve the suspension off road, and to get about 1 inch lift without using spacers. The Bilstein 5100 does not include new coils, the 6100 does.
The 5100 and 6100 products are not offered for the Exp, but are for the F150. The front suspension for the Exp and F150 is very similar. One diff appears to be the spring rates. I don't know how diff they are, but it doesn't seem like a big deal because the weights of the two vehicles are similar.
Bilstein does offer the 4600 shocks for the Exp and the F150, so comparing the lengths of the 4600 shocks for the two vehicles seems helpful. Bilstein's 4600 info indicates that the compressed and extended lengths of the F150 4x4 shocks are about 1 inch longer than for my Exp. However, the Bilstein 4600 and 5100 products for the F150 2WD are almost exactly the same lengths as the 4600 for the Exp. Based on this, looks like the F150 products will my Exp because they are similar in length, esp the 2WD product.
I have seen a few threads about this, but nothing conclusive. I called Bilstein, but they were not helpful. I considered the Rancho 9000 Quicklift, but have read mixed reviews about them.
So even if it Bilstein's F150 parts bolt onto the Exp no problem, does it improve the off road performance? Or does it just not work well because it is designed for the F150 for some reason? Has anyone done this or know of a forum thread about it? Thanks

 

[OverlandExpy]

I've done hours of research online about this exact issue, but have not found anything conclusive either. There is basically no aftermarket true lift kits (not spacers) for 03-05 expys. There are TONS of lift kits for 150s, and I've been eyeing a few different 5"+ kits, but haven't pulled the trigger because I am not sure if the kits would fit.

It would definitely improve offroad performance if it fits. I've seen around these forums that the front end of the expy and 150 are very similar, but again have not found anything conclusive. I've been on the lookout for someone with a 150 in my area that I know so I can put it up on my lift and take some measurements, but haven't found anyone yet. The big issue I think would be finding a lift for the rear suspension as we have IRS and the 150 has a solid axle.

Good luck though and keep us posted if you end up buying the 150 suspension and let us know if it fits!

 

[Vincent Vega]

Thanks OverlandExpy. I am going to buy a set of F150 5100s from Bilstein and try them. I also found a 2004 F150 and (awkwardly) got underneath and took measurements when nobody was looking. I measured the spring height, distance between shock mount and spring perch, and overall strut height. All measurements were similar or the same as the Exp. I will let you know if it works.
And yeah, for the rear we will probably be stuck with spacers.

 

[Jb14]

Disclaimer please verify yourself:: I have done quite a bit of research on this my self and it appears the 5100 for the F150 will work on the front (in fact aftermarket A-arms and such will work as well) For the rear Bilstein makes a 5100 for 2018 expedition that may work.

***Again please verify I have only done a cursory but looks good***

 

[UpRiver88]

Just a quick question along the same lines, if I have a 2003 expy, for the front pair would I be wanting to get 5100's meant for a 2004-2008 4x4 F150? And I looked at the 2018 expy rear 5100's as a possibility but the collapsed and extended lengths (15/20.95) is pretty close to the 2003-2006 4600's (14.09/21.2). Does the adjustability of the 5100 allow it to sit higher than the 4600, in other words, actually give it a lift?

 

[BrandonZ55]

Front suspension is basically the same on the f150 and expys 03-06. They basically have the same front half of frame. My lift spacers are from an f150 front. Obviously rear is different. Spring rates very because of different options and snow plow prep packages and tow packages.

 

[medrano]

Just wondering if anyone went through with the parts spoken of. I went with the rancho quick lifts on my 05 expy. The only problem I am running into is my A Arms are maxed out. Full extension with tons of stress on the ball joint lol. Does run a little rough. And I have put it through some trails so the only way to correct that is by getting lift spindles but guess what! They don’t make them for expeditions. So I would have to get F150 spindles BUT they are different. So I’m now thinking of doing a full swap, lower arms, upper, spindle and obviously brakes. Anyone on here done this?

 

[Vincent Vega]

@medrano How much increase in ride height did you get from the Ranchos? Are they any better offroad vs. Motorcraft struts?
I have not had time to upgrade my suspension. I have been busy replacing my intake manifold, front brakes, and timing chains, tensioners, etc. Just trying to keep it up and running. I will update this thread when I make a move on the suspension.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Took a while for me to get to this because last year I had to install a new intake manifold, front brakes (w rotors), master cylinder, and new timing and hoses. Also I checked around with offroad parts and custom fab places to try to figure out some outside the box options because there is not much out there available for Gen 2 Exps, but that went mostly nowhere (All they wanted to talk about was Jeeps and Toyotas).
For the front, I installed the Bilstein 5100s advertised for the F150, with AC Delco F150 standard duty coil springs. I wanted 6112s but they were not available ("supply chain"). I set the 5100s at the stock ride height circlip, which based on all the math and stuff I did should have meant 1.75-2 inches of lift on my Exp, but ended up 2.5 inches. Going into this, I didn't want that much because it needs to fit in my garage and I didn't want CV joint, balljoint or UCA problems. But it ended up great.
For the rear, I was going to install Rancho Quicklifts (0.75 inch lift), but after the front went up 2.5, that would not have been enough to level the truck. So I installed Ebay lift spacers for 1.5 inches of lift, and new Bilstein 4600s.
The truck doesn't look that much different. It would need new wheels to make it pop, but that is out of my budget for now. But it rides way better. Night and day. Way better offroad, which was the whole reason for doing this.

 

[Jb14]

Thanks for posting this write up. I am in the process of changing out my fronts 4600 with the 5100 as you did. You stated that at the stock setting on the 5100 it lifted the truck 2.5 inches I thought that getting the 2.5 inches of lift was placing the circlip at the max lift (top ring) If at the stock setting does that mean at max setting you get 3.5 inches of lift?

 

[Vincent Vega]

@Jb14 good to see you are still out there. The Bilstein/F150 coilover is 1.25 inches taller than the stock Exp coilover. That got me 2.5 inches of ride height lift at the wheel. I might have got some of that lift just from the new coils, hard to say but those coils were almost 20 years old, probably getting tired.
I didn't try the top circlip so I can't be 100% sure. But on a F150 the top circlip is supposed to provide 2 inches of lift. As you probably know, thats because the coil is more preloaded (compressed) and stiffer, so sags less with the Exp's weight. Add 2.5 inches to that because of the taller coilover. So I would estimate 4.5 inches of lift if you use the top.
Let me know what you end up doing and how it goes.

 

[Jb14]

@Vincent Vega Thank you for the info really helps me choose the direction I've been mulling over. I have been debating on selling the truck but still like the old girl and with the cost of new vehicles with overinflated costs I have decided to drop some money and give it a refresh.

 

[Vincent Vega]

@Jb14 I agree, it is the worst time in world history to buy a car. I am doing the same thing. Over the last year or so I put in new intake man, timing set, master cyl, brakes, then I finally got to the suspension. After the suspension, I started to repaint the rusty parts of the roof where water collects in those stupid channels. Then my lower ball joints started going out, and a blend door motor started clicking... Never ends.
What is the plan for the refresh?

 

[Jb14]

@Vincent Vega Back in 2016 when I lifted my truck I redid, for the most part, the entire front suspension (the essential parts) and plan on doing something similar with replacing struts, springs new upper, and replacing bushings in the lower A-arm. I already purchased new brake rotors and calipers that I am changing out this coming weekend. I have been very fortunate with my truck and have over 300k besides regular maintenance and the original alternator (that just went out a few month ago) plugs & batteries my engine is all original from the factory and besides the ticking runs really good, so I am either going to have the engine rebuilt or just do the cam phaser, timing chain high flow oil, and have the overhead cam and rollers replaced plus replace a few caskets & bushings here and there, and the exhaust system. I will also be considering regearing which I did not do when I put on the 35s. I also need to replace my tires which have been on the truck since 2016 (I have been having sticker shock with the increase in tire costs rising, so been procrastinating)

Other than that I may upgrade the stereo system with a pioneer unit and speakers. Pricing this out I should be around 3k investment minus tire cost but I put that under maintenance. I am going to try to do as much of the work myself or find a backyard/mobile mechanic to assist due to my work schedule (Though I still need to find a mechanic) I also have the paint issue so I am still deciding about that.

So that's about it for now.

 

[Vincent Vega]

@Jb14 great plan. Please keep us updated on your progress, would love to see it come together.
Any photos from your brake job? Last year, after sledge-hammering for an hour, I had to make my own "press" to get the factory rotors off last year. Sucked.
Yeah with 35s I would think regearing would be good. Even my 33s made a noticeable difference. I am going to install at least one locker, and will regear to 3.90 then. Might as well while it is all opened up.
Since you brought it up, I will post on here when I fix the roof paint. Not than I am anything close to a pro painter. I have sanded the rust off and finally got the body filler I need. Oreillys bungled it twice so I finally got from Napa. I am going to do the LCAs before Fall, so it will be ready for Mojave trails.
Later

 

[Jb14]

@Vincent Vega I should have thought about taking photos when I did the brake job! The brake job went 98% smooth with a couple of head-scratchers regarding the new calipers. 1st I bought the powerstop kit with the cross-drilled and slotted rotors with the Z37 SUV pads. (Note: Powerstop was not my 1st choice and I did not want drilled and slotted rotors would have preferred blanks or slotted-only but cost and available options is why I went this route) I also bled the brake fluid system and replaces with DOT4 instead of DOT3.

Regarding the brake calipers, I purchased them from BuyBrakes has a kit that included the caliper, bracket, and hardware. The calipers are centric and appear to be a quality product but I had 3 issues.

1st) And to me the main issue, is regarding the brake line on the driver's side. I purchased driver and passenger (Thats how kit described) I replaced the passenger side first and the brake line install in the same location as the stock calipers at the bottom. The driver however brake line position was at the top (I could not reverse the bleeder with the brakeline position as they are different sizes) I tried to just put brakeline to the top position but that kinked the line to much for my comfort so I had to rework, bend and twist the bracket securing the line to the LCA which turned out ok until I put the wheel back on. With my offset and wider wheel the brake line was rubbing the backside of the wheel so I had to rework the bracket again to get the distance I needed.

(Note: I did check my order and yes it was for driver and passenger but when I unpacked calipers there was a small round sticker indicating (L/R) I guess now size fits all but that is not how factory was)

2nd) The slide pins on the caliper were 7mm Hex while factory is 9mm Hex (not a big deal but thought I'd mention) the issue was that the slide pin material seems softer and one pin had an issue with the hex not formed correctly and it started stripping. The solution was easy I was able to use the 9mm Hex slide pins from the old stock calipers ( I switched all 4 to be sure)

3rd) One of the bleeder valves' head stripped with little effort so I temporarily replaced both sides with the stock bleeder valve and will purchase new valves to have on hand.

In conclusion, the new systems seem to be working well, braking smoothly, and the more I drive the better the bite. I still have the stock brake booster and feel that I should replace it (just in my head due to miles on the vehicle)

That's it for now

 

[Vincent Vega]

@Jb14 sounds like a giant pain in the ass, but thats great that you got it figured out. After hearing about your experience I am going to rebuild my calipers when the time comes. I replaced my master a few months ago - FYI Motocraft discontinued that part. All or most of the aftermarket parts appeared to be the same exact part at different prices marketed by different brands. Napa was like $100. I got a Raybestos for about $60. Works fine, just had to bleed the crap out out the brakes using Forscan (because of the antilock system).

 

[Jb14]

@Vincent Vega It is was interesting that when purchasing as a kit that things like this were not thought through, but at the same time I did not want an expensive kit nor a cheap kit so I guess little things like this will just be the case. Anyways now that I have some miles on them everything is working good and smooth I just needed to apply some backyard mechanic experience to the project. I originally planned on rebuilding my calipers and watched a few vids that made me question whether or not rebuilding was just the rubber stuff or if it included needing to replace the cups if they were pitted etc, so with over 300k on the original calipers chose the new route. Now the booster is something I have been thinking about replacing as well so thanks for the tip on the Raybestos and the forscan for ABS.

 

[john-paul-v]

I've done hours of research online about this exact issue, but have not found anything conclusive either. There is basically no aftermarket true lift kits (not spacers) for 03-05 expys. There are TONS of lift kits for 150s, and I've been eyeing a few different 5"+ kits, but haven't pulled the trigger because I am not sure if the kits would fit.

It would definitely improve offroad performance if it fits. I've seen around these forums that the front end of the expy and 150 are very similar, but again have not found anything conclusive. I've been on the lookout for someone with a 150 in my area that I know so I can put it up on my lift and take some measurements, but haven't found anyone yet. The big issue I think would be finding a lift for the rear suspension as we have IRS and the 150 has a solid axle.

Good luck though and keep us posted if you end up buying the 150 suspension and let us know if it fits!

Hey overland what is your current lift setup?

 

[OverlandExpy]

Hey overland what is your current lift setup?

Should be in my main build post but I have Rancho quick lift struts which add an inch or so and two inch pucks on top of the coil over assemblies to give me ~3inches front and rear. I think the Ranchos are 0.75in for front and 1 in the back but don't quote me on that. Pretty much the max lift we can put on our rigs without needing new control arms with different geometry. The rear axles rub a little on the bottom of the holes in the rear cross member when at full extension and even on the ground the front axles are at a pretty extreme angle. Haven't snapped a cv yet though!