Thinking of a 2022/2023 Expedition XLT or Limited

[tommyboy74]

Hi everyone. The time has come as I have a growing family and am now in the market to consider moving from a Jeep Grand Cherokee to 3 row suv. I really like what I've been seeing with the Expedition XLT and think it could be a good fit. At the same time, there are some things I like about the Limited. I have driven Ford vehicles in the past and opted to go to Jeep on the most recent suv. One must for me is that I would need 4 wheel drive due to being in the snow belt. I would not need the MAX version in either case.

A few questions I wanted to ask you all in here:
1) How has reliability been on the Expeditions in general?
2) Are there any known trouble spots that I should keep in mind?
3) How has the 4 wheel drive performed?
4) Would the Limited trim be worth an upgrade over the XLT?

Any other information that you think may be helpful is appreciated.

 

[dlcorbett]

1) the expy is actually pretty reliable despite what it seems like on the forums. To get a more reliable suv this size, you'd need to go older sequoia, and maybe armada. But they aren't as nice as the expy(actually the armada is nicer inside, but has worse tech and less space). With that said, there are things to look out for, which this forum is really good at pointing things at.

2) for this gen, the biggest thing is cam phasers, which shouldn't be a problem for post 21s, and transmission, which seems like a toss up over 50k. For brand new post refresh, the biggest issues seem to be electronic implementation. Small nagging issues like power boards and windows and screens seem to be the problem. However, the biggest issue for the post refresh for both 22 and 23 is the discontented features with no discounts. It's not as noticeable on xlts, but limited and up, you'll be able to tell right away.

3) can't speak on this as my prior expy and current nav are 2wd.

4) I honestly think the limited is a huge upgrade depending on what you want. If you want the features of the 202 level xlt, then grab a Limited. The difference In price btw the low level limited and high xlt is miniscule, but you get front sensors, better leather on seats and steering wheel*, better sound system, better interior materials.

 

[inmanlanier]

Unless it won't fit in your garage, I'd definitely consider getting the MAX - that extra storage room in the back is IMHO essential if you're going on a family trip somewhere. I've always gotten the longer version of any 3 row SUV I've ever had and in some cars it makes a huge storage difference.

Since I have a '12 - sorry - can't speak to your other questions.

 

[KetMalice]

For the love of god do not buy a 22. It’s a covid car and they are all falling apart a year into owning them.

 

[Dustbunny]

For the love of god do not buy a 22. It’s a covid car and they are all falling apart a year into owning them.

Really?! That's a broad statement to make. My 22 will be a year old on the 4th of June, and it is NOT falling apart. Other than the lights turning on by themselves 3 times, it has been a great truck. I think you'll find quite a number of others that haven't had major problems with theirs.

 

[gripnrip]

Purchased a used 22 limited 304a without CCD last month and everything has been fine. No tech removals and 17k miles so it was a bit of a gem to find. Really only issues identified after 2k miles is running boards will not stay deployed, warping front center speaker, some trim coming out….. I bought the extended warranty so will get all of this taken care of. Highly recommend the 22 max

 

[rd618]

Hi everyone. The time has come as I have a growing family and am now in the market to consider moving from a Jeep Grand Cherokee to 3 row suv. I really like what I've been seeing with the Expedition XLT and think it could be a good fit. At the same time, there are some things I like about the Limited. I have driven Ford vehicles in the past and opted to go to Jeep on the most recent suv. One must for me is that I would need 4 wheel drive due to being in the snow belt. I would not need the MAX version in either case.

A few questions I wanted to ask you all in here:
1) How has reliability been on the Expeditions in general?
2) Are there any known trouble spots that I should keep in mind?
3) How has the 4 wheel drive performed?
4) Would the Limited trim be worth an upgrade over the XLT?

Any other information that you think may be helpful is appreciated.

They are built on the same platform as the F150, so you’ll find they are fairly reliable. Most full size body on frame SUVs are built to handle more serious use than they are ever put through.
They won’t ride the same as your Jeep though. so definitely go on a long test drive. It’s not bad. Just different.
Ford’s issue with these is mostly tech and fit/finish. The engines are easily capable of 200k miles and they pull 8k lbs with relative ease. opt for CCD suspension if ride quality is too rough, I mistakenly didn’t and I kick myself every time I go over washboard dirt roads.
I’m in the north east. 4wd on these is great. Opt for the ELSD it does a great job and combined with the 2 speed transfer case and 4wd system you’ll be hard pressed to find something like this that’s better in the snow. I always upgrade my tires though. The crappy Hancooks or generals aren’t worth my family’s safety, so I put on Defender LTX and this truck is amazing all weather now.
Limited is worth the upgrade just for the residual, same with the trailer tow package. Even if you don’t need it, get it. Those two options hold their value.

 

[dlcorbett]

Tbh, the ride with ccd is still very competitive and overall are the more comfortable rides for 3 row suvs. To get a better ride, you will need to get the jeep or gms with air suspension. Most crossovers, though more carlike, aren't as nice riding hollistically.

 

[nationalgallery]

4) Would the Limited trim be worth an upgrade over the XLT?

The best way is to evaluate and test drive an XLT, Limited and Platinum to see the differences among the trim levels.

 

[KetMalice]

Really?! That's a broad statement to make. My 22 will be a year old on the 4th of June, and it is NOT falling apart. Other than the lights turning on by themselves 3 times, it has been a great truck. I think you'll find quite a number of others that haven't had major problems with theirs.

Look at all of the service bulletins. Lol spoiler spikes puncturing the roof, transmissions leaking fluid, a new service bulletin just released for the transmission for a different issue. 2 separate service bulletins that burn up transmissions.

The dealerships acknowledge the 22 Expeditions have major problems. Ford overall just ranked dead last in 22 reliability.

Dealerships won’t submit items to warranty because Ford will do chargebacks on them. During Covid Ford changed the way service at dealerships works. Ford hired auditors to go through and look at warranty work that was already done, if the dealership didn’t write a doctoral dissertation on the problem the auditors flag it for chargeback. How do the auditors get paid you ask? Commission off of chargebacks. What has that done to service you ask? Dealerships are gun shy about submitting things to warranty for fear of a chargeback, labor and materials.

Runnnnn

 

[BrianM]

Hi everyone. The time has come as I have a growing family and am now in the market to consider moving from a Jeep Grand Cherokee to 3 row suv. I really like what I've been seeing with the Expedition XLT and think it could be a good fit. At the same time, there are some things I like about the Limited. I have driven Ford vehicles in the past and opted to go to Jeep on the most recent suv. One must for me is that I would need 4 wheel drive due to being in the snow belt. I would not need the MAX version in either case.

A few questions I wanted to ask you all in here:
1) How has reliability been on the Expeditions in general?
2) Are there any known trouble spots that I should keep in mind?
3) How has the 4 wheel drive performed?
4) Would the Limited trim be worth an upgrade over the XLT?

Any other information that you think may be helpful is appreciated.

For reliability predictions, I usually rely on Consumer Reports, and they indicate the 2023 is expected to have "Average" reliability, which is actually as good as it gets in the Large SUV category.

I've been doing "Build & Price" builds on the Ford website for years in anticipation of one day getting an Expy, and I always come back to the Limited, which seems to be the sweet spot. Not much more expensive than the XLT once you outfit them similarly, and way cheaper than the Platinum.

The XLT is available with the ActiveX (leatherette) material as opposed to real leather in the Limited, but honestly that ActiveX material is pretty nice, and seems like real leather unless you're comparing it side-by-side. I've read it's actually more durable than real leather. For seat material, I think you'd be happy with either one.

 

[litaz1]

I have a 22 XLT, I love it. No major issues. The things I wish I had gotten or more cosmetic, as I really wish I’d gone for the stealth package instead of just the blacked out package. 7,500 miles so far, purchased in august.

 

[Dustbunny]

Look at all of the service bulletins. Lol spoiler spikes puncturing the roof, transmissions leaking fluid, a new service bulletin just released for the transmission for a different issue. 2 separate service bulletins that burn up transmissions.

The dealerships acknowledge the 22 Expeditions have major problems. Ford overall just ranked dead last in 22 reliability.

Dealerships won’t submit items to warranty because Ford will do chargebacks on them. During Covid Ford changed the way service at dealerships works. Ford hired auditors to go through and look at warranty work that was already done, if the dealership didn’t write a doctoral dissertation on the problem the auditors flag it for chargeback. How do the auditors get paid you ask? Commission off of chargebacks. What has that done to service you ask? Dealerships are gun shy about submitting things to warranty for fear of a chargeback, labor and materials.

Runnnnn

Just so happen to have a close family friend that is the service manager at the local ford house. I asked if he's seen a lot of 22 Expy's coming in for service, and he said absolutely not. I am also well aware of how Ford has changed how service works.
Look at the number of TSB's that were issued for each year of the 2018-2021 Expy's; heck, look at all of the TSB's for Ford in general. It's amazing that any Ford products are rolling on the roads. All of the car manufacturers have a lot of TSB's. They have loaded all of the vehicles with so much wiz bang crap that I'm surprised that any of them run.
Anyone can get a lemon, as we have seen on this forum. I still stand by my statement that you will find many of us that haven't had any major problems with their truck. I guess it just depends on the day it was built and/or the luck of the draw.

 

[rd618]

Look at all of the service bulletins. Lol spoiler spikes puncturing the roof, transmissions leaking fluid, a new service bulletin just released for the transmission for a different issue. 2 separate service bulletins that burn up transmissions.

The dealerships acknowledge the 22 Expeditions have major problems. Ford overall just ranked dead last in 22 reliability.

Dealerships won’t submit items to warranty because Ford will do chargebacks on them. During Covid Ford changed the way service at dealerships works. Ford hired auditors to go through and look at warranty work that was already done, if the dealership didn’t write a doctoral dissertation on the problem the auditors flag it for chargeback. How do the auditors get paid you ask? Commission off of chargebacks. What has that done to service you ask? Dealerships are gun shy about submitting things to warranty for fear of a chargeback, labor and materials.

Runnnnn

You're basing your claim off of what? seeing a few service bulletins pop up? The 2018 when it came out (and still does) had service bulletins galore, and not surprisingly so do dozens of other brands. If the '22's have more service bulletins per vehicle sold than other brands, I'd take you more seriously.

Also, that's not at all how chargeback process work. My '22 was audited for the vibration at speed, the only "extra" steps required were a few back and forth conversations with the sr. tech and the ford technical engineers (which took less than 2 days). They then look at what parts were needed and how long it should take to do the work based on what was discussed. They get paid for that labor and materials. Dealerships prefer hourly work vs flat rate work as they charge customers dramatically more per hour than the flat rate cost.

Just so happen to have a close family friend that is the service manager at the local ford house. I asked if he's seen a lot of 22 Expy's coming in for service, and he said absolutely not. I am also well aware of how Ford has changed how service works.
Look at the number of TSB's that were issued for each year of the 2018-2021 Expy's; heck, look at all of the TSB's for Ford in general. It's amazing that any Ford products are rolling on the roads. All of the car manufacturers have a lot of TSB's. They have loaded all of the vehicles with so much wiz bang crap that I'm surprised that any of them run.
Anyone can get a lemon, as we have seen on this forum. I still stand by my statement that you will find many of us that haven't had any major problems with their truck. I guess it just depends on the day it was built and/or the luck of the draw.

there are not nearly as many 22 Expy's in for service at the local dealers. my buddy confirmed the same thing, but the important thing he pointed out is that there are not as many of them on the road either. So it's not really a fair comparison. He said if you really want reliability, get a car with less tech controlled pieces. When the mechanical components are the "cause" the fix is fast and typically straight forward. The tech pieces are typically where things get messy.

 

[dlcorbett]

So go xlt or limited. Actually most people here with problems are the timberline/limited spps, in particular the ones with the 15in screen.

It seems members with xlts, limited 302 and below don't have many issues. Platinum are a mixed bag, but seem less problematic than the Timberline and spp limiteds.

On the nav forum, problems in the 22/23s are few and far btw from wat I see. Most are electrical niggles, blue cruise operation and running board issues. Those who bought early 22s had more issues than late 22s.

 

[nationalgallery]

I would look at the Platinum before making a decision; aside from BlueCruise, which is amazing, there's many features (such as zone lighting) and upgrades (sync4A, nicer leather, real wood on console, B&O system) that make it pretty close to the Navigator IMO (of which I've had 4).

 

[KetMalice]

You're basing your claim off of what? seeing a few service bulletins pop up? The 2018 when it came out (and still does) had service bulletins galore, and not surprisingly so do dozens of other brands. If the '22's have more service bulletins per vehicle sold than other brands, I'd take you more seriously.

Also, that's not at all how chargeback process work. My '22 was audited for the vibration at speed, the only "extra" steps required were a few back and forth conversations with the sr. tech and the ford technical engineers (which took less than 2 days). They then look at what parts were needed and how long it should take to do the work based on what was discussed. They get paid for that labor and materials. Dealerships prefer hourly work vs flat rate work as they charge customers dramatically more per hour than the flat rate cost.




there are not nearly as many 22 Expy's in for service at the local dealers. my buddy confirmed the same thing, but the important thing he pointed out is that there are not as many of them on the road either. So it's not really a fair comparison. He said if you really want reliability, get a car with less tech controlled pieces. When the mechanical components are the "cause" the fix is fast and typically straight forward. The tech pieces are typically where things get messy.

I’m basing it off of my experience and others I’ve dealt with over the last year, and talking frankly with 5 separate service managers.

I’ve had dozens of problems with my Timberline, issues that still persist. The way I found out about the chargebacks was through my headlight issue.

My headlights/blinkers will intermittently stop working. Basically all lights on either side. I have a camera in my vehicle to show the 5 separate service places I’ve taken it to. They can’t seem to ever duplicate it. Even when a couple have seen it, it wasn’t hooked up to the computer to see what was going on and there isn’t a single code thrown. One place replaced my headlight and modules, and that did not fix the problem. They have tested wiring, replaced modules, and basically won’t do anything else to fix the issue. The place that replaced the stuff got charged back because it didn’t fix my problem. They didn’t do the “appropriate” thing according to Ford.

Every single dealership I take it to won’t touch it. They tell me if they do something and it’s still doing it they will het charged back for whatever they do. They won’t even submit it to warranty for fear of chargeback. Ford engineering gets involved and says there’s no issue can’t duplicate, then 2 days later I bring a new video of it doing it, Ford tells me to go to another dealership, and rinse and repeat the same thing.

I can’t even lemon law it through Ford because Ford buyback division will only see the issues that had a successful warranty claim.

Every service manager I’ve talked to has told me the 22’s have tons of intermittent issues that are almost impossible to run down, and they can’t submit warranty claims on stuff that’s intermittent because they truly don’t know if what they do will actually fix it, and if it didn’t fix it then it’s almost a sure charge back.

 

[rd618]

I’m basing it off of my experience and others I’ve dealt with over the last year, and talking frankly with 5 separate service managers.

I’ve had dozens of problems with my Timberline, issues that still persist. The way I found out about the chargebacks was through my headlight issue.

My headlights/blinkers will intermittently stop working. Basically all lights on either side. I have a camera in my vehicle to show the 5 separate service places I’ve taken it to. They can’t seem to ever duplicate it. Even when a couple have seen it, it wasn’t hooked up to the computer to see what was going on and there isn’t a single code thrown. One place replaced my headlight and modules, and that did not fix the problem. They have tested wiring, replaced modules, and basically won’t do anything else to fix the issue. The place that replaced the stuff got charged back because it didn’t fix my problem. They didn’t do the “appropriate” thing according to Ford.

Every single dealership I take it to won’t touch it. They tell me if they do something and it’s still doing it they will het charged back for whatever they do. They won’t even submit it to warranty for fear of chargeback. Ford engineering gets involved and says there’s no issue can’t duplicate, then 2 days later I bring a new video of it doing it, Ford tells me to go to another dealership, and rinse and repeat the same thing.

I can’t even lemon law it through Ford because Ford buyback division will only see the issues that had a successful warranty claim.

Every service manager I’ve talked to has told me the 22’s have tons of intermittent issues that are almost impossible to run down, and they can’t submit warranty claims on stuff that’s intermittent because they truly don’t know if what they do will actually fix it, and if it didn’t fix it then it’s almost a sure charge back.

You likely want to speak with a regional service rep. Every ford dealer has to work with one, they are also able to approve more advanced diagnostics and repair work if needed.
Lemon laws are typically sponsored by and run differently from state to state. Typically, if you have a documented proven defect and the dealers cannot rectify it, it usually benefits the consumer.

If they don't fix something, then they should get charged back for the work they billed for but technically never resolved. You as a consumer shouldn't stand for that, and neither should a company paying for a service.

 

[coyote-dogfish]

FWIW my 2018 MAX Platinum with 52k miles has been a rolling problem factory. Literally a preposterous number of issues with totally unrelated systems. I guess shame on me for buying first year of a new generation? I don't know how '22s are, or about the TSBs per vehicle sold, but, as a lifelong Ford guy who's built a 1000HP Coyote from scratch and love my Mustang - my Expeditions (had a 3rd gen as well) have been enough to push me away from Ford. I don't know if the grass is greener, maybe it's not, but I just know I can't diagnose/repair my '18 fast enough. We loved it at first over our 3rd gen and want to still love it but my wife wants rid of it and doesn't trust it at all. My latest is a failed water pump (replacing this weekend), and it's also leaking refrigerant from the rear evap... and the 10A transmission was replaced at only 45k miles (total failure - replaced under warranty thank God). Just giving my experience - I hate to give negative feedback and I hope the best for everyone else!