I gotta ask, why did you buy it with those issues? I agree, can't be set for comfort and towing. No truck can. Like tires a dedicated snow tire is horrid in the mud and visa versa. I order and spec for what I am going to use it for.
Our teeth are rattling out of our heads...
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CDNRabbit
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@Fastcar I bought it because it's the only vehicle that has a GCWR to carry my family and tow my trailer "legally".
I wasn't expecting a van/cuv ride. I like the way trucks ride. What I wasn't expecting was the constant vibrations. Everything in the expy is getting loose and rattling and I'm exhausted after long trips.
I wasn't expecting a van/cuv ride. I like the way trucks ride. What I wasn't expecting was the constant vibrations. Everything in the expy is getting loose and rattling and I'm exhausted after long trips.
Where it is the whole truck shaking it is time to go through it and determine what is causing the problem. It could be as easy as finding a tire out of round but I doubt it. I'd be looking at a drive shaft out of balance. Does it vibrate without anything hitched to it? Are you feeling it in the steering wheel? Have you had somebody else drive and felt around on the floor? Could be a couple of bent rims. Have you spun up the wheels and tires?
5280tunage
Full Access Members
One of the easiest tests is to run to discount tire or someone else that has modern balancing machines, they can quickly check all four tires/wheels for balance and shape. Unfortunately, they found I had a bent wheel that I didn't even know about. Ever so slightly bent.
Agree on the driveshaft but I'd have a hard time thinking a driveshaft on something like this would too far out of whack without just failing all together, there's a lot of torque in there.
Alignment possibly? Does it change at all during acceleration or deceleration? By smooth road, do you mean blacktop or concrete. I've been in many trucks (not my Expy though) that made me flat out nauseous on a concrete highway. Like driving on parts of I80 or 270 in an F350, couldn't even hold a conversation.
A harder test, as it usually costs money, find out if there's a local tuner shop or someone with a 4wheel Dyno, if it vibrates on that, it tells you something in the rotational assemblies is absolutely bad, and has nothing to do with the road type/quality.
Calidad
Full Access Members
One thing that isn’t possible. Is to have a heavy tow capable 8 passenger vehicle with a soft Sedan ride quality. The two things are not compatible.
The F150 comes in about 250 variations most do not have the same capacity of the heavy tow Expedition. Ford went independent rear suspension for two reasons better design option for folding 3rd row seats and a flat load floor and better driving dynamics with passengers. It however is not as good for towing.
Everything is a compromise. F350’s with great payload capacity ride like a wood buck wagon when empty. But ride fantastic when loaded and doing work.
When my Ex is empty its definitely not giving me a Toyota Camry floaty ride quality. When its packed full I would argue its actually too soft. Especially when I tow.
But thats coming from years in a 1993 Landcruiser that rode so rough it was advised by the women folk to wear a sports bra. The EX is a soft cloud ride in comparison. The BMW is stiff but a flexible unibody completely different type of ride.
Basically if you need load capacity? You have suspension designed to carry heavy loads and it rides rough when your not heavy.
The F150 comes in about 250 variations most do not have the same capacity of the heavy tow Expedition. Ford went independent rear suspension for two reasons better design option for folding 3rd row seats and a flat load floor and better driving dynamics with passengers. It however is not as good for towing.
Everything is a compromise. F350’s with great payload capacity ride like a wood buck wagon when empty. But ride fantastic when loaded and doing work.
When my Ex is empty its definitely not giving me a Toyota Camry floaty ride quality. When its packed full I would argue its actually too soft. Especially when I tow.
But thats coming from years in a 1993 Landcruiser that rode so rough it was advised by the women folk to wear a sports bra. The EX is a soft cloud ride in comparison. The BMW is stiff but a flexible unibody completely different type of ride.
Basically if you need load capacity? You have suspension designed to carry heavy loads and it rides rough when your not heavy.
I went to the driveshaft as the OP said it shook all over. A driveshaft that is unbalanced can create a vibration that will drive you nuts. Also the old adage, feel it in the steering wheel it's the front end, under you ass and it's usually behind the transmission. There use to be a machine that would balance the tire, wheel, and the hub assembly while on the truck. Kinda like a dyno but it spun one wheel at a time, unlike a dyno.Haven't seen one in years, probably outlawed it. I suppose he could put it on jack stands and do the rear wheels, not the safest thing but doable.
Flathead40
Well-Known Member
The Expeditions have vibration and ride issues, there’s quite a few complaints about it and tires don’t solve the issue. They’ve got something else going on and it seems to be much worse on 22-24 models. How an F-150 with similar payload and an old school leaf spring rear suspension can have a much better ride is beyond me. Also the build quality of the interior is laughable for an $80k+ vehicle, squeaks and rattles within days of ownership, center console and cup holders squeak due to the Temu grade plastics. Haven’t driven a 25 yet but I think we will be going away from Ford unless something major changes. And I know of others in my area that have gotten out of their late model Expeds and Navs over similar issues. Our 23 Limited Max has been very disappointing.
Mr Big
Full Access Members
Yes, there are a few complaints that the Expeditions have vibration and ride issues. A few were solved by swapping out the new tires that were coming with the tire seal added from the dealership. It was causing a bad vibration at around 70mph.
The best suspension, for me, is the CCD, that comes on some models. It can go from a soft ride on air to a tight suspension. My Ex Plat has 22" wheels with Michelin Defender 285/45 tires. It is too smooth at times in normal mode and handles like tight suspension sports car in sport mode.
Regarding interior, the interior on the XL and XLT are nothing compared to Limited and up. Then there's Platinum. I'm not sure if one could just get an interior upgrade on a lower model? I know there are different packages offered.
Flathead40
Well-Known Member
We have a Limited 502a so interior is nearly identical to a platinum, except for the the seats which I have no complaints about. The plastic components used on the cupholder assembly and center console are awful and a number of people have issues with noise. Headliner rattles and grab handle squeak. Also had the rear window rattle because no grease was applied to the latch from the factory. Couple that with harsh ride and vibration it can be exhausting to drive, which is not what you want from a big family hauler. We’ve also had the entire front end rebuilt due to front differential bearing failures. High speed vibration is still there even with Michelin defenders. Being an hour from the nearest Ford dealerships (who have incompetent service departments) doesn’t help. We have GM and Jeep dealerships nearby so that is likely the direction we will go. And I say this as a die hard Ford person.
Were it me I'd head for an independent garage. Hopefully they will be able to DIAGNOSE the issue or at least point you in the right direction. Most of the mechanics dealer's hire are those who have absolutely no friggin' clue to begin attempting to perform any type of diagnostic unless they can use a computer.
Mr Big
Full Access Members
My experience has been the opposite. A few local shops I've used here do crappy work, thry to over sell and then attempt to gouge the customer.
My Ford dealership is second to none. They always do a great job and send me home with a washed Expedition.
CDNRabbit
Full Access Members
Glad to see some validation of my insanity.
Expy is back in the shop. So far I've replaced tires, front bearings, did an alignment followed by rebalancing and checking wheels aren't bent. Next up is servicing front calipers and new rear rotors and pads. At least I can say they are trying and I'm making good use of the warranty.
Driveshaft is a good suggestion I'll ask about it.
Expy is back in the shop. So far I've replaced tires, front bearings, did an alignment followed by rebalancing and checking wheels aren't bent. Next up is servicing front calipers and new rear rotors and pads. At least I can say they are trying and I'm making good use of the warranty.
Driveshaft is a good suggestion I'll ask about it.
Ugh_J
Full Access Members
My 2 cents re: ride that I've learned from (sometimes expensive) experience over the last 10 years or so:
** CONTEXT: I have lumbar disc injuries so softer ride is critical for me. I'm well past my stanced R34 pongo-stik suspension days.
-- Downsizing from 22" rubber-bands to tires with an actual sidewall dramatically softens up the ride as long as you don't do a stupid and put load range E tires on it.
-- The Max rides better than the normal length, by a significant margin.
-- The 2025 down-trim models ride noticeably worse even with the same 20" wheels as my 2020. (Loaners, man. If you can get 'em and use it as a test car to validate your experiences, it's valuable info.)
-- Tire pressure is a linear function from 0 PSI @ 0 load to max PSI/max load. Figure out how much your truck weighs (each axle) with the family in it and set them to that pressure. Yell if you need more details. I run my max at ~34-36 PSI cold. The difference between that and the 40+ on the door sticker is redonkulous. I wouldn't try this on 22's as big potholes or road debris can wreck your week with no sidewalls and lower tire pressures.
-- "Upgrading" the factory shocks to Bilstein has been an abject failure all three times I've tried it on Fords unless you love you some super-firm ride (see: stanced R34 comment above). Tried both 5100 and 4xxx (the yellow ones) and both rode like skateboards to me.
-- Any lift will make the ride harder unless you get offset or extended control arms to retain the factory (or longer e.g. Raptor) geometry.
-- Don't be so dead-set on factory wheels or some other fad wheel. Shop by load rating and weight, as the less weight on the wheel means less unsprung mass which means better control without sacrificing ride.
-- One reason I went with 265/70/18 Michelin Defender LTX M+S 116T SL for both the F-150 and the other Expedition is they have the load rating for very light towing while being a few pounds less than the OEM tires and significantly lighter than any Cooper or load range E tire. If you have to tow at GVWR capacity that limits options a bit but if the Michelins will work, I'd pick them. I haven't tried the M+S2 versions of those yet but I will in another year or two when my OEMs wear out.
-- Yes, Expeditions are based on a truck chassis but they should NOT ride like trucks unless you spec them like a truck, plan to tow heavy, and do some of the things mentioned above that make the "truck" ride worse. You can make a 1/2-ton truck ride like a 3/4-ton truck if you want but if you aren't going to use it like a 3/4-ton truck, why would you do it?
---- Addendum: you'll see people whining about how a 6000lb SUV doesn't handle well without hard shocks, 22" sport tires, and a super-thick anti-sway bar. So is this a sports car, a truck, or an SUV? Know your limitations.
Best of luck. Lots of good and bad info out there and it's hard to differentiate without spending a lot of money learning the hard lessons about Internet Wisdom(tm).
** CONTEXT: I have lumbar disc injuries so softer ride is critical for me. I'm well past my stanced R34 pongo-stik suspension days.
-- Downsizing from 22" rubber-bands to tires with an actual sidewall dramatically softens up the ride as long as you don't do a stupid and put load range E tires on it.
-- The Max rides better than the normal length, by a significant margin.
-- The 2025 down-trim models ride noticeably worse even with the same 20" wheels as my 2020. (Loaners, man. If you can get 'em and use it as a test car to validate your experiences, it's valuable info.)
-- Tire pressure is a linear function from 0 PSI @ 0 load to max PSI/max load. Figure out how much your truck weighs (each axle) with the family in it and set them to that pressure. Yell if you need more details. I run my max at ~34-36 PSI cold. The difference between that and the 40+ on the door sticker is redonkulous. I wouldn't try this on 22's as big potholes or road debris can wreck your week with no sidewalls and lower tire pressures.
-- "Upgrading" the factory shocks to Bilstein has been an abject failure all three times I've tried it on Fords unless you love you some super-firm ride (see: stanced R34 comment above). Tried both 5100 and 4xxx (the yellow ones) and both rode like skateboards to me.
-- Any lift will make the ride harder unless you get offset or extended control arms to retain the factory (or longer e.g. Raptor) geometry.
-- Don't be so dead-set on factory wheels or some other fad wheel. Shop by load rating and weight, as the less weight on the wheel means less unsprung mass which means better control without sacrificing ride.
-- One reason I went with 265/70/18 Michelin Defender LTX M+S 116T SL for both the F-150 and the other Expedition is they have the load rating for very light towing while being a few pounds less than the OEM tires and significantly lighter than any Cooper or load range E tire. If you have to tow at GVWR capacity that limits options a bit but if the Michelins will work, I'd pick them. I haven't tried the M+S2 versions of those yet but I will in another year or two when my OEMs wear out.
-- Yes, Expeditions are based on a truck chassis but they should NOT ride like trucks unless you spec them like a truck, plan to tow heavy, and do some of the things mentioned above that make the "truck" ride worse. You can make a 1/2-ton truck ride like a 3/4-ton truck if you want but if you aren't going to use it like a 3/4-ton truck, why would you do it?
---- Addendum: you'll see people whining about how a 6000lb SUV doesn't handle well without hard shocks, 22" sport tires, and a super-thick anti-sway bar. So is this a sports car, a truck, or an SUV? Know your limitations.
Best of luck. Lots of good and bad info out there and it's hard to differentiate without spending a lot of money learning the hard lessons about Internet Wisdom(tm).
I've seen people say that the 25s without ccd ride about the same as the 4th gen without the ccd as well. Shame. However, with ccd, the 25s are much better than any 4th gen I've driven, regardless of tire and suspension set up.
I mentioned the driveshaft as you had changed about everything that rotated, and you felt it throughout the truck. I might look to a mount as well. Also you have't mentioned if it is load or speed sensitive, of course I might have missed it.
CDNRabbit
Full Access Members
@Fastcar it is most noticeable while cruising at speed and gets worse the higher the speed. It shakes the steering wheel but you can also see it in the mirrors, seat backs. I also feel it at lower speeds around town but it harder to notice with regular bumps, speed changes and steering input.
Like others have mentioned, smaller wheels and more tire helps a lot. If I could afford it I'd ditch the factory 22s.
Like others have mentioned, smaller wheels and more tire helps a lot. If I could afford it I'd ditch the factory 22s.
I get why the taller tire would minimize the vibration as you are using the larger sidewall as a sorta shock absorber. Does it behave the same in 2wd as 4wd? What happens when you put power to it. I had a vette that did about the same thin and it turned out to be a torque converter. There is a machine that uses sensors to help isolate the vibration. I haven't seen one in years, but I think that you might locate one if you search around. Perhaps the vette forum or some race car builder. A place where they specialize in high speed applications. Perhaps here, Lingenfelter Performance, call them as they are real helpful. They know about everybody in the performance world and might be able to point you in the right direction.
This sounds like a drive train issue. I would look toward the front CV axles especially since you mention it changes with steering input.
Ugh_J
Full Access Members
I dunno. Dad's Expedition had almost the same (perhaps of slightly less magnitude) issues with some new Cooper tires they just put on a few weeks back, which turned out to be about 0.5-1oz imbalance and one tire with a belt defect only detectable on the road-force testing machine.
[edit] I also don't know how many shops (dealer or otherwise) actually start out by balance-matching the tire and wheel before adding balance weights.
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