04 EB 4x4 - Front End Noise Noticeable Above 50 mph

[onetirefire]

Hello,

I bought a 2004 EB 5.4 4x4 almost a year ago with 58k miles. Now its just over 65k. I like driving it. Comfortable and tows the boat like a dream, Barely know its there.

For the last few weeks, it has been making a noise from the front end above 50 mph. At least thats when I can make it out. It gets louder with higher speed. You can feel a small vibration in the steering wheel. I don't like running it with this noise, but I have had the axle out of my mustang for a rebuild which should be wrapped up tonight. Hoping to get after this noise soon when I can leave it parked. I haven't even gotten under it yet.

As far as troubleshooting: Engaging AWD or 4wd does not impact the noise, throttle application or removal does not affect the noise, shifting to neutral or out of O/D does not affect the noise, steering side to side does not impact noise. It is vehicle speed dependent.

Its either the front axle or wheel bearings I am thinking.

Any thoughts?

I was trying to decide next steps to troubleshoot. Don't want to just throw parts at it. I was thinking about disconnecting the front driveshaft between the xfer case and the front diff.

Will that stop the front diff from turning and tell me if the issue is a wheel bearing?

I was also wondering, could I take out the half shafts and drive shafts and completely isolate the axle and wheel hubs? My buddy who drives a chevy said that large nut that holds the half shaft into the hub preloads the wheel bearings and I could not drive without the bearings preloaded.

A penny for your thoughts.
Thanks

 

[onetirefire]

Also, Is there any ideas on how I could set it up so I could drive it with the front axle out while I am repairing it?
Thanks.

 

[Stoned06]

What kind of noise? Is it constant, or rhythmic? With what you have said, I would think wheel bearing. Bearings usually get louder as the speed increases, and it seems you have ruled out the 4x4 system.

 

[onetirefire]

Sorry. Missed that detail. It is a constant noise. I would say it is a little higher pitch than the tire noise at this speed as well.

Any comments on if removing driveshaft will help isolate noise?
Will removing the drive shaft stop the front axle internals from spinning?? I don't think it will, but not sure I understand how the hubs work?????

 

[NO5.0]

Mine is doing the exact smae thing. Almost sounds like tire noise, just put 4 new tires on it. Does not change wheter its in 4wd or awd or 2wd. does not change turning left to right. Lifted the truck up on hoist had mechanic check it he said sound is coming from differential. Going to change diff fluid it looked a little thin. We will see what happens ill update. Any update on yours yet?

 

[onetirefire]

Not yet.... hoping to take a look at it this weekend. Got the mustang back on the ground and rolling last night.

 

[onetirefire]

Well, My dad was in town this weekend so we did a little trouble shooting.
- Got under the truck, The passenger side axle seal is leaking (has been for a while but doesn't drip)
- The pinion seal is leaking as well, I am wondering if this has to do with the synthetic oil I put in at the last swap.
- Jacked up one side of the car and started the engine in 2wd, the front wheels will spin free at the hub, No engagement to the CV shafts or axles. Hub disengaged, Guess that makes sense.
- Truck off or in 4wd, could still turn raised tire. There is resisance thru the differential as the hub was engaged.
- Went out and drove, We agreed, sounded like noise is coming from front drivers side. Still no change by changing between 2, A and 4HI. In gear, out of gear

Thinking that in 2wd the front axle and drive shaft should not be turning and that it makes the same noise in 2 or 4 wd, we were sure it was a wheel bearing.

Bought a new wheel hub and changed it out on the drivers side. (not too bad, worst part was getting the brake rotor off the hub due to rust, took off together and had to pound it off) Went out and drove it... no change.

Then we swapped the passegers side hub for the one we removed from the drivers side, just to see if it would make any difference...... no change.

The center section of the differential is close to the drivers side, I am wondering if it a differential noise, but I am at a loss on this one. From my understanding when in 2wd, the half shalfts, differential and front driveshaft should not be turning, but can't get under the vehicle while having it spinning.

I am wondering since this only happens at 50+ mph, if the friction in the wheel hubs some how starts the front drive components spining and that is how the axle could be making noise.

Any other thoughts??

If I drop the drive shaft and remove the half shafts, can I drive it??

The nut on the end of the half shaft is small. Only takes 27 ft lbs, from what I found on line. That cannot hold the wheel bearing preload, but if I take the CV shaft out, I think it opens up the back side of the wheel bearing hub assembly to contamination.

 

[mindgame]

Any other thoughts??

If I drop the drive shaft and remove the half shafts, can I drive it??

The nut on the end of the half shaft is small. Only takes 27 ft lbs, from what I found on line. That cannot hold the wheel bearing preload, but if I take the CV shaft out, I think it opens up the back side of the wheel bearing hub assembly to contamination.

Did you change the IWE solenoid, common issue with F150/Expy? (it is only around $30)

You can drive without the front driveshaft wihout issues.. As for half shafts, I would cover the hub vacuum actuators with metal tape, to prevent comtamination.. I had an attachment to someone elses post as to how removingthe halfshafts and taping it up should look like...

 

[01yellerCobra]

I don't know how easy it is to get to the diff on these trucks, but I'm thinking carrier bearing. My old GT would make some noises from the rear end that was more noticable at freeway speeds. When I did the gears I found the carrier bearings all gouged up. Replaced them with new ones and all was quoet.

Misspelling brought to you by Tapatalk

 

[onetirefire]

Hey guys thanks for the replies. Still searching and trying to troubleshoot before tearing into the front axle.

I read on another forum a guy had a similar issue on an '05 expedition, did all the same trouble shooting including removing the front half shafts and drive shaft....It didn't go away. Come to find out it was a rear wheel bearing noise being transmitted somehow to the front of the vehicle.

I rode in the back of this vehicle and it definitely sounds like it is coming from the front. I would be surprised if it were a rear wheel bearing. I jacked up the rear last night and didn't find any slop in the rear wheel bearings.

My buddy sent me a link of a video under a truck in 2wd and also with 4wd on. In 2wd, the front driveshaft sort of freewheels and picks up some speed as the vehicle speed increases I guess due to friction in the hubs, but doesn't spin at the same speed as the rear driveshaft. When switched to 4wd, you could tell the shaft speed correlated to ground speed.

This got me thinking.... Could I stop the front drive shaft (and the front axle and CV shafts) from spining just for a test drive and isolate it for troubleshooting. I was thinking about some heavy plastic tie straps connected to the u-joints in the front drive shaft to somewhere under the truck. Can't imagine if there were enough force there to break these it would harm anything and if the noise stopped, I could tell the noise is coming from the front axle.

 

[mindgame]

If you got some cash to burn... This is another thought..
97202 - Steelman Tools

 

[onetirefire]

Don't have any cash to burn.... laid off next week, but should give me time to hopefully get this resolved though

With (3) 75 lb tie straps between the u-joint at the front diff and the sway bar (pretty convenient location actually) I was able to stop the front driveshaft from spinning while going 60 mph.

Good new or bad news... I still heard the same noise. No change at all.

So if the front driveshaft is not spinning, the pinion isn't turning, the ring gear and carrier are not turning and my guess is when you are going in a straight line on pavement, the CV shafts would not be turning thru the open diff either. I think I have ruled out the front differential.

I guess its back to the wheel bearings.

Like I mentioned before, another guy had similar issue and rear wheel bearing fixed it. I am still perplexed as to how a rear wheel bearing could transmit noise to the drivers seat area and vibration up thru the steering wheel and you cannot hear it in the back of the vehicle

Not sure if I should take the new wheel bearing that I put on the front Drivers side back and see if they will exchange it or if I should swap out the drivers side rear wheel bearing? Going straight has constant noise but steering slightly right while going 60 mph makes the noies louder.

Any thoughts or advice?

 

[purple_50]

Don't have any cash to burn.... laid off next week, but should give me time to hopefully get this resolved though

With (3) 75 lb tie straps between the u-joint at the front diff and the sway bar (pretty convenient location actually) I was able to stop the front driveshaft from spinning while going 60 mph.

Good new or bad news... I still heard the same noise. No change at all.

So if the front driveshaft is not spinning, the pinion isn't turning, the ring gear and carrier are not turning and my guess is when you are going in a straight line on pavement, the CV shafts would not be turning thru the open diff either. I think I have ruled out the front differential.

I guess its back to the wheel bearings.

Like I mentioned before, another guy had similar issue and rear wheel bearing fixed it. I am still perplexed as to how a rear wheel bearing could transmit noise to the drivers seat area and vibration up thru the steering wheel and you cannot hear it in the back of the vehicle

Not sure if I should take the new wheel bearing that I put on the front Drivers side back and see if they will exchange it or if I should swap out the drivers side rear wheel bearing? Going straight has constant noise but steering slightly right while going 60 mph makes the noies louder.

Any thoughts or advice?

You try rotating the tires? A cupping tire will cause noise and vibration, just be sure the tires aren't all cupped the same as to give you the same noise even after rotated.

 

[onetirefire]

I rotated the tires just a few weeks ago with no change.

Do you think tire noises would vary with a slight steering input? i.e. not changing lanes, but just moving the steering wheel barely enough to start moving over in the same lane.

Any feedback on the CV motion with the driveshaft stopped. May try to remove a bolt from the axle to CV shaft flange and install a zip tie to stop its rotation just to ensure.... I read something about a S-sprng in the front diff and if it is not there, the front axles can rotate at different speeds ans cause noise.

Thanks

 

[onetirefire]

One last troubleshooting step last night for the front axle. Removed a bolt between the axle flange and the half shaft flange and zip tied it to the A-arm below to ensure it was not rotating as well as zip tied the front driveshaft again. Still the same noise.

I have definitely ruled out any issue with the front differential.

One thing I didn't mention at the beginning of this post was that the brakes are pulsing somewhat at moderate applications slowing from higher speeds. I bought new brake pads and rotors last night. It needs brake work anyways and figure I might as well try this before I try to exchange the new front wheel bearing. I am not very confident the new brake parts will change anything because the noise continues when applying the brakes, but figured I would give it a try.

 

[purple_50]

What you are describing is dead ringer of a bad wheel bearing, only you said you replaced one with new and then swapped the old one with the remaining on the opposite side correct? So unless you had 2 noisy bearings and the noise is still there on one side because of it.

 

[joe shmoe]

I have same issue with my 04,I swapped both front wheel hubs,4 new tires and same problem, I was told its the rear bearings.

 

[NO5.0]

CHANGING DIFF fluid did not change anything except new fluid. Still have the same noise as well. Next step changing the wheel bearing. Good luck as i htink this is your problem as well. It just sucks a $150 a piece.

 

[purple_50]

Have you checked the rear hubs for looseness or noise? When I bought mine both rear hubs were loose but with all the tire noise I had it was impossible to hear them. I had it on my hoist one day looking it over and found the loose rear hubs.

 

[onetirefire]

Sorry for the delay... Was too busy on my one week lay off between working on the basement and the Expedition to respond.

I swapped out the front rotors and pads (sprung for the ceramics to see if I can get rid of some of the brake dust I get) to see if I could get rid of the brake pulsation and crossing my fingers about the other noise, but it did not resolve either.

I put the back of the truck up on stands. I tried to see if I could move the wheel. No signs of movement when trying to rock the tire. Even had the wife run it up to 50 mph on the stands to see if I could hear it. Couldn't hear any noises probably cause there was not load on the bearing.

Then I got rear rotors and pads (sprung for the ceramics) and one rear wheel bearing assembly. Man were the parts on the drivers side rear corroded on there. I ruined the driver side rear rotor taking it off. Getting the bearing assembly off wasn't as bad, but still took some time due to corrosion. Guy at the parts store told me to use penetrating oil and hit the hub with a brass punch and hammer to vibrate the parts loose. Worked well on the passenger side. It actually fell off the passenger side after ~ 5 minutes. Hoping I didn't damage that bearing??? Wonder if I cocked the drivers side on by hammering and prying before I tried the punch that it didn't work??

The bearing assembly I removed does not rotate smoothly on the bench. Anyway parts went back together pretty well.

Good news is the bearing noise is gone now when you barely turn the steering wheel at speeds and the brakes are soooo smooth (probably nicest brake setup I have owned).

I am not sure I am completely happy with the outcome though... still seems noisey to me, but I think I am tuned into it now and just being to critical. Maybe just tire noise now and the fact that this has been going on for a while, cannot remember what it was like before the fix.

I am still surprised that the rear wheel bearind would drive that vibration into the steering wheel and you couldn't hear it riding in the back??

Thanks for yoru comments.