08 4x4 problem I think

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Loganiw118

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On a side slope to make the four wheel engage my rear tires are the only ones spinning. I've put it on jack stands and the four wheel works. Is it the RSC that is preventing it from engaging? I'm at a loss on what it could be or if I'm doing something wrong. I bought this vehicle a couple months ago for my wife. We live on a dirt road that doesn't get plowed when it snows. So I'm worried it won't work next winter and my wife and kids will be stuck when I'm gone at work.
 

ExpeditionAndy

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To get the wheels to actually lock you have to put it in 4H or 4L. If it is in AWD the RSC moves power around until it finds wheels that aren't slipping.
 

JExpedition07

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Yea could you provide a little more info regarding what modes you tried? To test as EA said you have to put it in 4H or 4L on the selector. If you put it to 4A it's a different animal than regular 4x4. 4A will only send power to the front when it detects rear slippage where as regular modes will lock it all together. Also note these are open diffs and often you get one front and one rear to spin.
 

JExpedition07

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Upon engaging your display should read "4x4 shift in progress" if it fails it will either say "4x4 shift failed" or not display 4x4 in the message center. If it is displayed the system is detecting no faults in the 4x4 system.
 
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Loganiw118

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Upon engaging your display should read "4x4 shift in progress" if it fails it will either say "4x4 shift failed" or not display 4x4 in the message center. If it is displayed the system is detecting no faults in the 4x4 system.


It does say shifting and shifts into 4x4 but when I put it into a situation to force tire spin the only tires that spin are the rear tires making me think that it doesn't work.
 

ExpeditionAndy

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Loganiw, This is from the 17 owner's manual but maybe this will help you understand what is supposed to happen. and then if it isn't then it might suggest a source of the problem.

4WD Indicator Lights
The indicator lights illuminate in the
information display in the reconfigurable
telltale (RTT) location under the following
conditions. See Warning Lamps and
Indicators (page 86).

Note:When a 4X4 system fault is present,
the system will typically remain in whichever
4WD mode was selected prior to the fault
condition occurring. It will not default to 4X2
in all circumstances. When this warning is
displayed, have your vehicle serviced by an
authorized dealer.

4X2
2H
Momentarily illuminates when
2H is selected.

4X4 AUTO
4A
Continuously illuminates when
4A is selected.

4X4 HIGH
4H
Continuously illuminates when
4H is selected.

4X4 LOW
4L
Continuously illuminates when
4L is selected.

4WD Switch Positions

WARNING

Utility and four-wheel drive vehicles
are not designed for cornering at
speeds as high as passenger cars any
more than low-slung sports cars are
designed to perform satisfactorily under
off-road conditions. Avoid sharp turns or
abrupt maneuvers in these vehicles.

Note:
If your vehicle is equipped with
AdvanceTrac® with RSC®, the system will
automatically turn off the stability
enhancement feature when you shift the
4WD system into 4L (4X4 LOW). You can
manually turn the system off by pressing
the AdvanceTrac button. See Using
Traction Control (page 175)
. This will
disable the engine management feature,
allowing the vehicle to maintain full power
and enhanced momentum through the
obstacle. The brake traction enhancement
feature will still be enabled.

Note:
The Control Trac® selector switch
should not be changed while the rear wheels
are slipping.

The Control Trac® system functions in four
modes:
• 2H delivers power to the rear wheels
only. The information display will
momentarily display 2H when this
mode is selected. This mode is
appropriate for normal on-road driving
on dry pavement and provides the best
fuel economy.
• 4A provides electronic control
four-wheel drive with power delivered
to all four wheels, as required, for
increased traction. The information
display will display 4A when this mode
is selected. This mode is appropriate
for all on-road driving conditions, such
as dry road surfaces, wet pavement,
snow, or gravel.
• 4H provides electronically locked
four-wheel drive power to front and
rear wheels. The information display
will display 4H when this mode is
selected. This mode is not
recommended for use on dry
pavement. This mode is only intended
for severe winter or off-road conditions,
such as deep snow, ice or shallow sand.
• 4L provides electronically locked
four-wheel drive when extra power at
reduced speeds is required. The
information display will display 4L
when this mode is selected. This mode
is not recommended for use on dry
pavement. Use this mode for off-road
low-speed operation or when extra
power is required, such as climbing
steep grades, going through deep sand
or pulling a boat out of the water.

Shifting between system modes

Note:
Momentarily releasing the accelerator
pedal while a shift in progress message
displays will improve
engagement/disengagement performance.

Note:
Do not perform this operation if the
rear wheels are slipping.

Note:
Some noise may be heard as the
system shifts or engages; this is normal.
You can move the control from 2H, 4A or
4H at a stop or while driving. The
information display may display a message
indicating a 4X4 shift is in progress. Once
the shift is complete the information
display will then display the system mode
selected.

Shifting to or from 4L

Note: 4L mode is not intended for use on
dry pavement.
1. Bring the vehicle to a rolling speed of
3 mph (5 km/h) or less.
2. Place the gearshift in neutral (N).
3. Move the 4WD switch to the desired
mode.

The information display will display a
message indicating a 4X4 shift is in
progress. The information display will then
display the system mode selected.
If any of the above shift conditions are not
met, the shift will not occur and the
information display will display information
guiding the driver through the proper range
of shifting procedures.

If SHIFT DELAYED PULL FORWARD is
displayed in the information display,
transfer case gear tooth blockage is
present. To alleviate this condition, place
the transmission in a forward gear, move
the vehicle forward approximately 5 ft
(2 m), and shift the transmission back to
neutral (N) to allow the transfer case to
complete the range shift.
How Your Vehicle Differs From
Other Vehicles

WARNING

Vehicles with a higher center of
gravity such as utility and four-wheel
drive vehicles handle differently than
vehicles with a lower center of gravity.
Utility and four-wheel drive vehicles are
not designed for cornering at speeds as
high as passenger cars any more than
low-slung sports cars are designed to
perform satisfactorily under off-road
conditions. Avoid sharp turns, excessive
speed and abrupt maneuvers in these
vehicles. Failure to drive cautiously could
result in an increased risk of loss of vehicle
control, vehicle rollover, personal injury and
death.

Truck and utility vehicles can differ from
some other vehicles. Your vehicle may be
higher to allow it to travel over rough
terrain without getting hung up or
damaging underbody components.
The differences that make your vehicle so
versatile also make it handle differently
than an ordinary passenger car.
Maintain steering wheel control at all
times, especially in rough terrain. Since
sudden changes in terrain can result in
abrupt steering wheel motion, make sure
you grip the steering wheel from the
outside. Do not grip the spokes.
Drive cautiously to avoid vehicle damage
from concealed objects such as rocks and
stumps.

You should either know the terrain or
examine maps of the area before driving.
Map out your route before driving in the
area. To maintain steering and braking
control of your vehicle, you must have all
four wheels on the ground and they must
be rolling, not sliding or spinning.

Driving Off-Road With Truck and
Utility Vehicles

Note:
On some models, the initial shift from
two-wheel drive to four-wheel drive while
your vehicle is moving can cause some
momentary clunk and ratcheting sounds.
This is the front drivetrain coming up to
speed and the automatic locking hubs
engaging and is not cause for concern.

Note: Your vehicle may be equipped with
a front air dam that can become damaged
(due to reduced ground clearance) when
taking your vehicle off-road. You may
remove this air dam by removing eight bolts.
Four-wheel drive vehicles are specially
equipped for driving on sand, snow, mud
and rough terrain and have operating
characteristics that are somewhat
different from conventional vehicles, both
on and off the road.

The transfer case supples power to all four
wheels. On four-wheel drive vehicles, the
transfer case allows you to select different
4WD modes when necessary. You can find
information on transfer case operation and
shifting procedures in this chapter. You can
find information on transfer case
maintenance in the Maintenance chapter.
You should become thoroughly familiar
with this information before you operate
your vehicle.

Four-wheel drive (when you select a 4WD
mode) uses all four wheels to power your
vehicle. This increases traction, enabling
you to drive over terrain and road
conditions that a conventional two-wheel
drive vehicle cannot.

Basic Operating Principles
• Do not use 4H or 4L on dry, hard
surfaced roads. Doing so will produce
excessive noise, increase tire wear and
may damage drive components. 4H or
4L modes are only intended for
consistently slippery or loose surfaces.
• Drive slower in strong crosswinds which
can affect the normal steering
characteristics of your vehicle.
• When driving your vehicle on surfaces
made slippery by loose sand, water,
gravel, snow or ice proceed with care
 

Hayes Riviere

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What year is your Expedition? If Andy's method for his 17 doesn't work, then I can pull out my owner's manual and find what you need I've got a 2013, but I think that the information for that would work on yours too if you've got a similar year.
 

JExpedition07

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either the transfer case isn't sending power forward to the front differential or the front diff isn't engaging properly. I'm not good when it comes to 4x4 on these systems at all, I know a bit about ESOF on super duties but the control trac is new to me.
 

JExpedition07

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I'd jack it up and see if it's sending power forward to the diff, if it is you'll know obviously. On the SD for example sometimes the Vacuum hubs would fail and the tires wouldn't engage but the drivetrain sent power forward as evident by spinning driveline. If you have power going forward and the front axle still refuses to spin the the differential is not locking it all in up front.
 
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Loganiw118

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either the transfer case isn't sending power forward to the front differential or the front diff isn't engaging properly. I'm not good when it comes to 4x4 on these systems at all, I know a bit about ESOF on super duties but the control trac is new to me.

Do they sell manual hub conversions for these vehicles all this electronic shit is frustrating!!!
 
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Loganiw118

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What year is your Expedition? If Andy's method for his 17 doesn't work, then I can pull out my owner's manual and find what you need I've got a 2013, but I think that the information for that would work on yours too if you've got a similar year.

08
 
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Loganiw118

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I'd jack it up and see if it's sending power forward to the diff, if it is you'll know obviously. On the SD for example sometimes the Vacuum hubs would fail and the tires wouldn't engage but the drivetrain sent power forward as evident by spinning driveline. If you have power going forward and the front axle still refuses to spin the the differential is not locking it all in up front.

I put it on stands front tires spun stop one tire other on would spin but i didn't try to stop both tires and see if it was actually trying to spin
 

JExpedition07

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Do they sell manual hub conversions for these vehicles all this electronic shit is frustrating!!!

On the expedition these don't rely on auto locking vacuum hubs like the pickups I believe they are always locked in to the front axle, that being said if front tires dont spin that backs up your last possible line of failure to the differential operation assuming the transfer case is sending power to the front. I'm just saying you should jack it up again and look underneath so you can begin to isolate where the problem is and then you can troubleshoot from there. Like on GM trucks there was a differential actuator up front that would break and the system would not know there was a fault even though there was, you could isolate it to the diff by getting under the truck and seeing the driveshaft spinning going up front, from that you could troubleshoot that area as you could also tell the axle wasn't spinning out after that. If you can isolate where your problem lies it makes the process much easier to help with and for you to get an idea what you're dealing with. Put her up and into gear and take a look at what you have going on under there it'll simplify the situation from a big mystery to a little one for you. There is a failure somewhere in your system and it will show itself if you look closely
 

ExpeditionAndy

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On the expedition these don't rely on auto locking vacuum hubs like the pickups I believe they are always locked in to the front axle,
That is incorrect. The Expeditions uses the same vacuum locking hub as the F150. When you are in 2WD vacuum is applied to the hubs, the wheels spin and the axles stand still. When AWD is engaged the shift motor engages the transfer case and the vacuum hubs release vacuum and lock the wheels to the axles.

The computer then transfers power as needed to keep you from spinning your wheels. some Expeditions have locking rear axles (4WD models if I remember correctly). When the hubs fail it is usually the IWE relay or a vacuum line and it causes the hubs to partially engage and you hear a rattling or grinding noise.

Here are some videos that explain this system


 
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JExpedition07

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That is incorrect. The Expeditions uses the same vacuum locking hub as the F150. When you are in 2WD vacuum is applied to the hubs, the wheels spin and the axles stand still. When AWD is engaged the shift motor engages the transfer case and the vacuum hubs release vacuum and lock the wheels to the axles.

The computer then transfers power as needed to keep you from spinning your wheels. some Expeditions have locking rear axles (4WD models if I remember correctly). When the hubs fail it is usually the IWE relay or a vacuum line and it causes the hubs to partially engage and you hear a rattling or grinding noise.

Here are some videos that explain this system




Good to know Andy... because I sure didn't lol. So it looks to be pretty much the same as ESOF on super duties other than the Hubs aren't exposed and you have an auto setting. Thanks for setting right from wrong here. I'm gonna stay off this cuz I'm just creating unneeded confusion lol, good luck to the OP.
 
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ExpeditionAndy

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Good to know Andy... because I sure didn't lol. So it looks to be pretty much the same as ESOF on super duties other than the Hubs aren't exposed and you have an auto setting. Thanks for setting right from wrong here. I'm gonna stay off this cuz I'm just creating unneeded confusion lol, good luck to the OP.
No problem JExpedition. I've messed around with them so I knew. I just couldn't find the specific video that shows how they work. Ford created the video and it's pretty cool, but I couldn't remember where I saw it. :)
 
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