1999 Expedition EB 5.4L Stalls / No Starts SOLVED

[docraymund]

You may have a wire or connector or relay related to the pcm, crank sensor, cam sensor or maf sensor that has a poor connection that causes it to heat up and interrupts the flow of current. That's why you need to wait a given amt. of time to let it cool down.

You need to replicate the problem. Try to let your truck idle with the hood open outside your garage and wait for it to stall again.

While waiting, carefully touch the connectors if you can for warmth. Also feel the fuses, relays and wiring harness under the steering wheel and near the ignition.

Also carefully try wiggling wires in the engine bay hoping a loose connection or a chafed wire might turn up. Good luck!

 

[juan214]

Here we are today guys. It stall out quite a few times today. Even three times in a row but restart each time. Didn't leave me stranded anywhere yet today.

While running I gave the crank sensor a couple of taps with my case knife, no stalling. Didn't hit it that hard didn't want to break it.

Checked battery voltage at terminal and its at 12.26V. Tested the five ground points (including the battery to the firewall) near the PCM, both fenders, radiator support, both sides of the block at four points, drivers side of firewall all show the same voltage at 12.26V. Every point tested showed 12.26 exactly every time. When the firewall was repainted every ground point was cleaned prior to grounds being attached. While running all these point show 14.53V +/- 1V, the block was at 14.63V +/- 2V.

Note: The wire harness was inspected before installation in 2015 had no issues then or prior. It is the original harness from the vehicle. The entire harness was completely re-wrapped with electrical tape to clean it up and avoid any future rubbing. Any missing / broken wire holders replaced. Every wire holder taped to its exact factory location.

I have started at the crank sensor and am visually inspecting for rub spots and wear spots. The harness is not touching anything and is pretty stiff with the tape on it. I disconnected the harness from the Crank Sensor and pulled it up to inspect for wear and rubbing nothing yet. The connector is not melted and the tape still looks clean and new looking. Even inspect the common wear spot at the front of the valve cover though there is rubbing but nothing rubbed through there not even a breakdown of the tape.

Going to see if I can get some T pins to test Crank sensor. My volt meter didn't read running or not. So I'm assuming that I got no connection or did the test wrong.

 

[stamp11127]

I use the thin sewing needles with the plastic ball on the end for probing connectors. Don't puncture the wire insulation and your meter needs to read mili-volts ac.

 

[juan214]

That's why I probably didn't get a reading don't have mili-volts setting on these two voltmeters. Found my other meter it has a mV setting according to the screen. Don't think this one will work either.

Its a TENMA 72-7222

• • Voltage Measuring Range DC:200mV, 2V, 20V, 200V, 600V
  • Voltage Measuring Range AC:2V, 20V, 200V, 600V
  • Current Measuring Range AC:2A, 20A, 200A, 400A
  • Resistance Measuring Range:200ohm, 2kohm, 20kohm, 200kohm, 2Mohm, 20Mohm
  • Temperature Measuring Range:-40°C to +1000°C
  • DMM Response Type:True RMS
  • DMM Functions:AC Current, AC/DC Voltage, Resistance, Temperature
  • Ranging:Auto
  • Display Count:1999
  • AC Current Range Accuracy:± (1.5% + 5d)
  • AC Voltage Range Accuracy:± (1.2% + 5d)
  • Accuracy:± (1.0% + 3d)
  • Current AC Max:400A
  • Current Range AC:2A, 20A, 200A, 400A
  • DC Voltage Range Accuracy1:± (0.8% + 1d)
  • Resistance Range Accuracy:± (1.0% + 2d)
  • Temperature Measuring Range:-40°C to +1000°C

 

[juan214]

From 2:30 pm to 7:00 multiple starts NO no start conditions produced.
Took the truck out this afternoon NO no start condition produce.
Went to market this evening NO no start condition produce.
Engine coolant temp up to 190 degrees and no issues.

 

[stamp11127]

Is it AC or DC mV?

Check out the Fluke 115 or toss a crank sensor at it since it is cheaper than the meter.

 

[juan214]

The tester looks like it says DC Mv.

Seems like the only one available in my area is the cheap one a Duralast from AutoZone Going to look at ford when they open.

Going to walk the dog at the park see if it stalls today..... Later

 

[Big Brian]

I would just put a new crank sensor in. Problem is you will have to test it in the no start condition and since its very hard to replicate I would just put a new one and in to eliminate that being a problem.

Like Stamp said they are cheap enough

the crank sensor puts out .5 to 1 volt ac

heres how to test it frim that other link I provided

http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/ford/4.6L-5.4L/how-to-test-the-crankshaft-position-sensor-2

 

[juan214]

Well she stalled twice both times engine coolant temp up to 192 degrees and no start. Restarted at 162 the first and 172 the second.

Put a noid light on the injector while while stalled the first time but the truck started and the noid lite up. The second time no light at first but eventually it lite.

Going to the Ford dealer to pick up the crank sensor before they close. An hour to dealer and back no issue even with engine coolant temp up to 192 degrees.

Going to rain for the next three days going to try and get it in before it starts.

 

[stamp11127]

Real mechanics work in the rain....

 

[juan214]

LOL, installed since 4:00 pm didn't start raining until 8pm. Was just ready to post procedure and results.

 

[juan214]

Ford 5.4L Crankshaft Position Sensor Removal:

Just for those who need this info.

• 1 - 1.5 hours
• $25 - $60 Sensor

Removal

1. Insert 1/2" breaker bar into tensioner and push to drivers side.
2. Remove belt from over the alternator (drop it under the pulley).
3. Loosen the 8mm bolt from sensor with an open end wrench.
4. Loosen the two bottom 10mm bolts from AC compressor with a 10mm socket, 12" 3/8" extension, and 3/8" ratchet.
5. Loosen top 10mm bolts from AC compressor with a 10mm socket, 3/8" universal, 12" 3/8" extension, and 3/8" ratchet.
6. Loosen top bolt completely and leave it there (It will not be removable).
7. Loosen bottom front bolt and remove and set aside.
8. Loosen bottom rear bolt as much as possible without removing it. (this will help with the reassembly)
9. Loosen the 8mm bolt from the sensor with an open end wrench, remove and set aside.
10. The sensor has an O-ring on it so it may not just pop out.
11. Spin the sensor back and forth until it slides out.
12. CAUTION: If it proves to be difficult just use something to pry it out. You do not want to break the especially inside the the timing cover.
13. Once it pops out it will not come straight out. Use one of the below to remove it.
14. If you removed both bottom bolt just slide the compressor towards the rear of the vehicle and slide the sensor straight out.
15. If you left rear bolt on the ac compressor it will swing just a little bit out of the way. Spin the sensor connector from six o'clock to two o'clock. Slide it out and up and it's out.

Reassembly:

Reassemble in reverse order. If you left the rear bolt in place it will make reassembly easier as it held the weight of the compressor and eases the alignment of the other two bolts. The torque spec for these bolts are from 15 - 22 ft/lb. Don't forget to reconnect the connector or it will not start.

 

[juan214]

The results:

I did get a Multimeter to check the AC Mv on the old sensor. I bench tested it and the reading were between .050 and .300

No Start Condition appears to be gone for the moment. Will post actual results in a day or two. Fuel economy is off now was getting 10 - 11 city 13-15 highway, now getting 9.5 - 9.6 both.

Thank to those who help out with this.

 

[Big Brian]

hope it works for you

that bench test in invalid. How the sensor works is there are magnets in the crank pulley. As it whips past the sensor the magnetic field causes pulses through the sensor that generates ac voltage. Its not going to have any voltage output sitting on the bench.

The proper test procedure was in that link I sent you

 

[juan214]

I knew that I hit the tip repeatedly with an extension to get the reading. It was at .003 at rest. Either way wanted to check out the tester.

Just a thought:
I believe it was a heat issue, maybe the magnet inside the sensor is cracked and when the plastic expands it separated losing signal / contact. As it cooled it contracted and made contact again for a restart.

 

[Big Brian]

yep good thought

hope this works for you

 

[drewactual]

i think it was the late model mopar LA block just as they morphed into the 'magnum' series- right after EFI went on them and right as OBDI was intro'd... that had the CKPS near the flywheel, where it picked up the signal from the magnet...... and the entire flexplate started magnetizing........... making the CKPS give all grades of weird signals- and it took engineers a while to figure that out. not mechanics- engineers....

at least we don't have to contend with that, huh?

 

[juan214]

Two days now no issues this sensor has close to 200k (if it was the original). Taking it on my usual daily run and see what happens.

NO ISSUES now thanks to Mystery Inc. (You guys) Rich, Bri, Drew and Ray another mystery solved.

Now to figure out the MPG drop it was better before all this. NEW PROJECT to add to the list.

 

[Big Brian]

well I hope it holds up and this is the end of it

as far as MPG goes did you try resetting your mileage computer?

Is that how you are getting your mileage?

I noticed with mine if I don't reset it after doing certain things it takes a long time to settle back to the right mpg

Like on Sat I got a 1/2 yard of gravel in my trailer, I was waiting around forever in the landscape supply place since it was jammed up. The place is only a mile from my house but it threw the mileage way off when I checked it later that day

 

[juan214]

Ya, I reset it yesterday to retrain the computer to see what happens. Think of changing the cam sensor to before it fails too.

Thanks again