2003 Expedition 4R70W line pressures / NO forward / ONLY reverse

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metaldrgn

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So, this is actually in regard to the transmission I've already replaced. I bought a used transmission from a salvage yard w/ 88k miles supposedly. I installed it, filled it, and went for a short test drive. Whenever I engaged drive, it was delayed which can mean the clutch pack isn't doing so well or pressure is low. Anyhow, when driving around a few blocks, I lost all forward gears. Reverse still worked. The wife towed me back with another vehicle and pushed it into the garage. I bought a line pressure tester and when it finally arrived I tested it throughout the gear range and this is what I got:

P - 50 PSI then drops to 40 after cycling through the gears
R - 110 PSI
N - 40 PSI
D - 70 PSI
2 - 70 PSI
1 - 70 PSI

According to one thing I found on google, all those pressures are good. The book says it should be 50-65 P, N, D, 2 and 70-100 in R, 1. Calling the dealer and getting numbers from him, he was showing all gears at idle should be 80-100 PSI. That would mean that all pressures are low except reverse which would be high and that doesn't make sense.

UPDATE:
The ATSG says they are good except P, N(All gears except reverse should be 50-75 PSI and reverse should be 80-120 PSI)

Anyone have an idea what the issue could be?

After some reconsideration, I'm wanting to rebuild the old transmission that came out. The only problem it had was after awhile of driving it, I sometimes lost forward gears but M2 worked and after sitting awhile it would be fine again. It also made a grinding noise when in gear (It may have been anytime the engine was running, I don't recall now and I should have taken a video or something) since before this problem started, but has progressively gotten louder. I've already disassembled the transmission and it's actually in good condition which is why I want to return the used transmission I bought and just rebuild this. There were no metal chunks in the pan, but there was more than I would have liked for the other material that accumulates there. Also it looks like a good amount of the material was caked onto the bottom of the valve body, but a minute amount in the actual passage ways. I'm guessing that's all from the frictions? Upon looking at the clutch packs, the forward CP is burned some and some of the frictions are fairly worn (I can post pictures later).
 
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Vancouver Bob

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I've never done anything to a transmission other than flushing the fluid so I can't be of any help... but just wanted to give you kudos for tackling this job!!
 
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metaldrgn

metaldrgn

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Thanks! I'm kicking myself because I've never done it before and was trying to save time by going to the salvage yard and just getting a used one, but it's taking longer than if I had just learned and done a rebuild. I think the main reason ppl are afraid of it is because everyone else is afraid of it lol. There are a lot of components, but since there are so many resources online now, there's not a good reason not to do it. See where others forgot or missed something and make sure you don't. You don't really need any special tools for it. The bench I'm doing it on is a reinforced plywood sheet with a 3" hole drilled in it so I can sit it up for assembly. It sits on some metal sawhorses for easy storage.
 
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stamp11127

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Cleanliness is super important here. Hydraulic systems don't tolerate trash well.

Torque the bolts since the aluminum distorts easily and will lock pistons and actuators if over tightened.

Becareful installing certain components that will only turn in one direction (sprag clutch).

Get the ATSG manual for rebuilding the trans - cheap insurance.
 
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metaldrgn

metaldrgn

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Thanks for the info! Yes with transmission stuff I always torque to spec. I actually bought a used mechanical diode as the one that was in there doesn't turn either direction by hand. All gears before I took it out worked fine though, but I'm sure it may have caused problems in the future. The Belleville spring behind the reverse CP is also broken. I keep forgetting to buy another one to replace it. No issue with the reverse CP though so maybe it was more recent. I have the ATSG now and will also reference it for installation. I'm going to replace the bearings and some of the bushings and torque converter.
 
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metaldrgn

metaldrgn

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Here's a picture of the of the fwd CP that was in the original transmission that came out.

20171223_145347.jpg
 

John Christopher

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Thanks for the info! Yes with transmission stuff I always torque to spec. I actually bought a used mechanical diode as the one that was in there doesn't turn either direction by hand. All gears before I took it out worked fine though, but I'm sure it may have caused problems in the future. The Belleville spring behind the reverse CP is also broken. I keep forgetting to buy another one to replace it. No issue with the reverse CP though so maybe it was more recent. I have the ATSG now and will also reference it for installation. I'm going to replace the bearings and some of the bushings and torque converter.

Did you ask the salvage yard for another trans. If that one was bad they may give you another. I would give it a shot.
 
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metaldrgn

metaldrgn

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Yes and I just want a refund at this point. They said they could have their transmission guy look at it and rebuild it, but I'm out labor, fluid, filters, and seals so I don't want to do this more than I have to. Not to mention it's a lot of work pulling and installing this thing on the 4x4 model. They said they would do a refund if I wanted. I'm fairly confident the old transmission shouldn't be too much of a problem as all gears worked, just started slipping after a while of driving. All seals that I've looked at are in really good condition. Everything except the forward clutch pack, Belleville reverse spring, and mechanical diode are good. I will be double checking. In the mean time I'm shifting to removing the old transmission. I want to solve that issue sooner than later. Maybe on days I don't have a lot of time I will keep inspecting and listing all the stuff I need to do this rebuild. I don't really want to buy a huge kit if I don't need it. I will be getting a shift kit and some other things that resolve other known issues with the transmission to make it last a little longer.
 
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metaldrgn

metaldrgn

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So just a small update:

Returned the old transmission for a full refund. Ended up spending around $1k for the rebuild kit and other various small parts. That includes a Sonnax zip kit, reinforced separator plate w/ cap for the 2/3 accumulator, and reman'd torque converter from ebay. I've run into a new problem w/ the new frictions. For the direct and intermediate CP, the frictions are a newer design and a little thicker (~.1mm each and that's just checking against the direct CP). The steels for the direct CP are ~.02mm thicker, but I would think that should be w/in spec. Overall I get .030" (sorry I go back and forth w/ the measurement types) and I'm showing it should be .062"-.085". It looks like there may be thinner steels I can get to get me into the tolerance I need? I see something about thinner snap rings, but that's a fairly significant gap. The forward/reverse CPs were stacked and w/in tolerance (.62" reverse/.62" forward). They were the same design that was removed though.
 
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metaldrgn

metaldrgn

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Wow this is taking awhile! I ordered hopefully the last few parts then I'm going to start the rebuild and reinstall it. This should be a strong transmission hopefully!
 
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