2007 Ford Expedition has a ghost somewhere.. Please help??

[chris2888]

So I have the craziest question and want to see if anyone has experienced this. I have a 2007 Ford Expedition EL Limited 4x4. My wife and I purchased about 2 years ago.

Well back last Oct we jumped in, put the key in and all the lights came on, seat pulled up and turned the key and nothing happened. Car never turned over, started or anything.

So I kept checking the transmission in park etc. Well after about 20 mins and fiddling with it, bam put the key in and it started no prob.

Well over the past 9 months this has gone on about 2 times a month. We might start it 20-40 times and it works perfectly, then all of a sudden is strands us. Its consistent for about 15-25 mins every single time.

This is hard to track down, because it is intermittent and no one can check it. I have had the dealer and mechanic friend and nothing. Its really aggravating as at this point I just want it to break so we can get it fixed.

Well this week it did this for like an hour, had to get the vehicle towed to Ford, backed it off the truck and started right up like nothing. Crap!!!

Here is what I have done thus far...

Replaced the battery- Feared it was a dead cell.
Did it once at home - So i got under and took a screw driver off the starter solenoid and it sparked and turned over. No crank
Purchased an ignition switch today - Have not put it in yet.

Here are my possible thoughts -
1. Starter and or Solenoid going bad
2. Ignition Switch going out
3. Neutral safety switch going out
4. Las but not least, a bad PCM/ECM module
5. Maybe a PATs theft issue?

I am about to start tossing these parts at it to fix. This is soooo aggravating. Has this happened to anyone else? Is there anything else it could be?

I dont know what to do?

Thanks for any help.

 

[stamp11127]

Have you considered investing in a test light and voltmeter before tossing parts?

 

[Bedrck47]

http://www.expeditionforum.com/f68/factory-service-manuals-25089/#post205020

 

[chris2888]

I have not tried using a voltmeter on this yet. Where would I start? The starter/Solenoid? Netural switch looking for continuity?

Thanks

 

[stamp11127]

Control side of the starter solenoid the next time it acts up. You should have 12v on the small wire that connects to the solenoid when the ignition switch is in "start".

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I have not tried using a voltmeter on this yet. Where would I start? The starter/Solenoid? Netural switch looking for continuity?

Thanks

The next time this happens, leave the key in the unlocked position and shift the automatic transmission selector level to the neutral position - then see if the vehicle will start. If so, the problem lies with the neutral safety switch.

 

[chris2888]

I will try this with the starter the next time. Just put my voltmeter in the vehicle.

99 White- I have when it acted up I have tried twice to put it in neutral and start. Same thing with no luck.

Could it still be the switch?

Also- It seems to do it worse when the temperature is hotter outside. Weird, coincidence I dont know, but it seems that way.

 

[stamp11127]

Use your meter to determine what failed, then you will know the cause instead of taking a guess at what it is.

Can you read and follow wiring diagrams - trace circuits?

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I will try this with the starter the next time. Just put my voltmeter in the vehicle.

99 White- I have when it acted up I have tried twice to put it in neutral and start. Same thing with no luck.

Could it still be the switch?

Also- It seems to do it worse when the temperature is hotter outside. Weird, coincidence I dont know, but it seems that way.

I have seen neutral safety switches that failed that would only start the vehicle when in neutral - and switches that would allow the car to start when placed in neutral and "wiggled".

I own a 2015 Expedition Limited and am not familiar with your year model neutral switch.

Do you have a brake switch interlock that prevents the engine start unless your foot is on the brake? If so, that can also cause no-start problems.

 

[chris2888]

When it acted up last week I did put it in N and tried to start as well. Nothing happened just as it was in park.

I have my Voltmeter and will test the starter next time. The neutral safety switch was something I was looking at replacing. Also, I tried to find under the dash the linkage adjustment for this to see if it got loose, but my model doesnt have the #30 torque bolts to adjust.

My brake pedal I would think doesnt affect it because my vehicle will start without the brake pedal having to be pushed.

Boy this is a headache for sure.

Thanks for all the help. I actually want it to break for good so I can find it.

 

[chris2888]

Ok guys it finally acted up and I was able to use a Multimeter. See my settings on the pic below.

I put the black wire of the multimeter on the small ground wire of the starter solenoid as in what STamp said in a prior post. Then put the red wire of the multimeter on the power to the starter solenoid.

I put the ignition switch in start position and it read 12.44. Then had my wife turn the ignition to see if it would crank while I head the Multimeter on the wires and it never moved off of 12.44.

I also put the black wire on the ground of the starter an as well and hot on the solenoid and same 12.44.

So this tells me that with all the dash lights on as normal, that its not sending a signal down to the starter solenoid to engage and try to start.

I replaced the ignition switch, still did it. I do have the neutral safety switch, but have not put it on yet.

What would be my next steps to check? Could it be the other part of the ignition housing? Any relays in the steering column? Wires in the column?

This is such a pain to track down.

 

[chris2888]

Here is the pic above...

 

[stamp11127]

Sent you a pm, need your email address for the wiring diagrams. The starter relay is in the battery junction box and not mounted on the firewall like older generations.

 

[Johnathan M]

I have a similar problem of not starting. Did you ever figure out the problem? I replaced the neutral switch on the transmission but that didn't fix it. Because it doesn't even click when turning the key, I suspect maybe the relay, but was unable to find info as to where it's located. The previous post says its in the fuse box, so I'll check there, but just wondered what you figured out.

 

[Bedrck47]

I have a similar problem of not starting. Did you ever figure out the problem? I replaced the neutral switch on the transmission but that didn't fix it. Because it doesn't even click when turning the key, I suspect maybe the relay, but was unable to find info as to where it's located. The previous post says its in the fuse box, so I'll check there, but just wondered what you figured out.

Welcome to the forum.

It would be best that you start a new thread for your problem
Although your problem may be similar That doesn't mean that it will require the same fix.
Start a new thread and give as much information as you can about your problem and what you have done so far.
This way any responses that are received will be for you and not be for someone else's problem

 

[stamp11127]

Still working on his problem. You would not believe how a simple circuit has been made overly complicated on his Expy EL. Lets just say Boolean logic is prevalent in this one.

Right now we are testing for the point of failure to be on the pcm side of the circuitry - the tcm/range selector switches are suspect.

On the positive side of the trigger circuit there are around 19 points of failure that will keep it from starting. The circuit has been modified so that the pcm (negative side) no longer has any say on the start sequence. If the problem doesn't return then we know there is an issue on the negative side of the circuit. If it does return then the problem is on the positive side of the circuit.

There was an issue with one of the connectors in the battery junction box which has been fixed, but the problem returned after a few days of multiple starts without an issue.