2008 Ford Expedition XLT - 3rd AC compressor in 4 years

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Kenko

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My wife's 2009 Ford Flex has gone thru 4 compressors now. I finally got a decent explanation from a friend that's a Porsche mechanic...of all things.
He put an OEM in for me the last two times...and he said that apparently if moisture gets in the system...it's difficult to get all of the moisture out. Once it's in there...it's common to have multiple failures he said.
So...the last one he put in, he flushed it twice and so far it seems to be doing the trick. Knock on wood.
Not sure if this helps...but this has been my experience with multiple compressors that have failed.
The proper way is to to purge out flush with only nitrogen. Vacuum test for leaks isnt always reliable. Nitrogen leak down test with pressure is best. done lots of research on this subject. Basically I overhauled the complete ac system which required pulling the dash. (Fun)
Desiccant can be dried out sometimes but for insurance best to replace when compressor goes. Condensers should be replaced for known compressor failures. Substitute for designed ac flush isnt recommended. Txv replacement are recommended for replacement when comp goes. Burnishing new ac clutch helps break in armature. Always check gaps on clutch hub. Ac work can cost you much more in the long run like prem failure if you skip any steps. Unlike stubborn and inquisitive me. Leave to pros and even they mess up. Try to find a guy who specializes in your area.
I hope someone finds my post helpful
 

Boose

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Let's be careful about our terminology and accuracy. The evaporator is not an item that you replace unless yours leaks. I know of no warranties that mention anything about evaporator replacement.
The accumulator and often called an accumulator drier which typically has a desiccant bag inside is the part that is often required to be replaced with a compressor for the warranty. Also many times the orifice tube is required for warranty but that's always a good idea anytime you have a compressor failure and even a good idea on any older system that's never been opened up. Might as well replace it to get the gunk off the screen while you have the system charge out.

They will sometimes called at the accumulator or receiver drier also. Since it has a desiccant bag in it it can also be considered a dryer since it serves as that purpose.
The funny part is most vehicles have another dryer in the liquid line but they never talk of this being replaced for warranty.

Probably because it's hard to do and not as commonly reproduce by aftermarket companies and they figure the same thing can be accomplished by replacing the accumulator and they can sell more parts and make more money.

So for warranty purposes it is almost always the accumulator and or the orifice tube.
I have I have never seen a warranty that mentions anything or requires the evaporator core to be replaced.
It doesn't have small passages in it that get clogged up. Just a big tube the size of your finger or larger with the fins hooked to it. The only time you replace an evaporator core is when it fails due to leakage.

Agree, my mistake... the point is, when a component in the AC system fails, best practice is to change everything you can or you will be doing it multiple times.
 

07navi

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Agree, my mistake... the point is, when a component in the AC system fails, best practice is to change everything you can or you will be doing it multiple times.
Especially the compressor but they don't always break up and spew debris. The drier / accumulator is the only real short lived part.
 

TobyU

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The proper way is to to purge out flush with only nitrogen. Vacuum test for leaks isnt always reliable. Nitrogen leak down test with pressure is best. done lots of research on this subject. Basically I overhauled the complete ac system which required pulling the dash. (Fun)
Desiccant can be dried out sometimes but for insurance best to replace when compressor goes. Condensers should be replaced for known compressor failures. Substitute for designed ac flush isnt recommended. Txv replacement are recommended for replacement when comp goes. Burnishing new ac clutch helps break in armature. Always check gaps on clutch hub. Ac work can cost you much more in the long run like prem failure if you skip any steps. Unlike stubborn and inquisitive me. Leave to pros and even they mess up. Try to find a guy who specializes in your area.
I hope someone finds my post helpful
Nitrogen flushing and pressure testing has only been a standard in residential and Commercial AC systems for 15 or so years.
Not popular in automotive at all and not even really a thing in automotive.
I'm not saying no one does it but it's not mainstream at all.

I've heard comments about it before but these are usually from people who are HVAC text by trade or used to do the job for residential units.
You also won't hear a lot about or see the use of Micron gauges in automotive world has the more recent wave of HVAC residential techs will tell you it's the only way to do work... which is not completely true.

I mean think about it... Automotive industry is still using liquid dye and UV lights and glasses to look for leaks whereas hard piped residential systems would never consider such a crazy thing.

Also, there really is no armature in an AC clutch.
Burnishing the clutch when it's new is a thing and could be beneficial over not paying attention to the clutch cycling in any way shape or form but it's more like brake pads and rotors or any other type of electric clutch, and Armature only really applies to an electric motor with brushes and commutator and or possibly solid slip rings but I don't even know if those actually count.
An electromagnetic clutch such as on an AC compressor doesn't qualify as an armature.

Automotive AC system really isn't rocket science as some people make it out to be.
Leaving a system open for a period of time is the worst thing right there along with the compressor failures that blow chunks of debris through the system.

There have been thousands upon thousands of people simply blow the charge, slap a used compressor on, and charge it back up.... many without even pumping it down and have had years of service from it.

Leaks and lousy compressor quality are the main problems with auto AC systems.
 

07navi

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I agree it's not rocket science and a lot of people think they can just throw a can of refrige in and it will get colder but that only works sometimes because if it is all leaked out it probably has condensation in it and needs to be pumped down not to mention one can is nowhere near enough or it's already full and the refrige level is not the problem and they slug the expensive compressor and blow it to bits. Another misconception is just because the compressor goes out doesn't mean you are going to have debris all through the system because it didn't automatically grenade. If you are going to add refrige to it at least read up on it first and get a set of high and low pressure gauges before doing anything, and don't forget these systems need a certain amount of pag oil to run because the compressor needs it and some compressors come with oil in them so watch for that if you replace one on your own.
 

max78

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It might have been clarified already, but.

These expys have an AC expansion valve, no orifice tube.

The dryer that holds the dessicant is part of the condenser, i dont know if its serviceable.

I hope you dont have the "black death" as some call it. The compressor brakes down and you get a black sludge that gets pumped throughout the system. We went through 4 ac compressors in 2 years on a suburban that had that. Flushed a dozen times. We sold it before we truely got it fixed. Reading up in it, material and buildup can get clogged in the condenser and evaporaters tiny passages and randomly dislodge. Replacement of those 2 items is generally recommended to resolve the failures.
 

07navi

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It might have been clarified already, but.

These expys have an AC expansion valve, no orifice tube.

The dryer that holds the dessicant is part of the condenser, i dont know if its serviceable.

I hope you dont have the "black death" as some call it. The compressor brakes down and you get a black sludge that gets pumped throughout the system. We went through 4 ac compressors in 2 years on a suburban that had that. Flushed a dozen times. We sold it before we truely got it fixed. Reading up in it, material and buildup can get clogged in the condenser and evaporaters tiny passages and randomly dislodge. Replacement of those 2 items is generally recommended to resolve the failures.
WOW, I think instantly turning it off when it quits would help and it sounds like that needed some more parts.............yikes! This is why people but new cars .............lol
 

TobyU

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It might have been clarified already, but.

These expys have an AC expansion valve, no orifice tube.

The dryer that holds the dessicant is part of the condenser, i dont know if its serviceable.

I hope you dont have the "black death" as some call it. The compressor brakes down and you get a black sludge that gets pumped throughout the system. We went through 4 ac compressors in 2 years on a suburban that had that. Flushed a dozen times. We sold it before we truely got it fixed. Reading up in it, material and buildup can get clogged in the condenser and evaporaters tiny passages and randomly dislodge. Replacement of those 2 items is generally recommended to resolve the failures.
That Suburban probably had crap in the condenser and pieces of piston rings that kept dislodging and going through the system.

It was brought up that someone said they thought this generation which I think is the third generation that were talking about has an expansion valve and an orifice tube but it makes little difference overall. Both parts serve the same function but sometimes and expansion valve can give a little bit better system performance and they also tend to not clog up as easy and cause a high side restriction like orifice tubes can.

There are some Autos that put a liquid dryer in one of the lines coming from the condenser to compressor and sometimes they call it a muffler also sometimes it's a combination item so they could certainly put a dryer in the inlet or Outlet of the condenser but most automotive AC systems have but people referred as an AV bottle, accumulator or accumulator drier which usually has a desiccant bag inside. This is the larger silver or black canister that usually sits vertically up near the firewall.

Like I have mentioned, it's not really rocket science and I was speaking in generalizations to various vehicles and specifically some Fords like the panther chassis, 1st and 2nd generation Expeditions and F-series trucks.

As others have mentioned sometimes I can pressure doesn't fail internally and there is no debris in the system at all but when you have a compressor failure you never really know how much damage it's going to do in the future. You can flush and flush and sometimes a chunk will come out later.

I'm not a real fan of most the commercial flushes out there as they are thick oily liquids and I really don't think they work that well. Then you have the option of blowing them out with compressed air but that puts a lot of moisture in the system.
I have flushed a few condensers with denatured alcohol with a drill pump. You want to start by flushing them the opposite direction of the flow to try to remove anything that's in there and not push it further inward. And if you can flush them through for 15 or 20 minutes you stand a good chance of getting everything out. Then I hit them with 120 PSI of air even both directions. Then sometimes I flush them again. Then blow them out and let them dry.
If you have a compressor failure it's best to just replace the accumulator bottle, expansion valve or orifice tube, and condenser. When you have everything apart I like to blow through the lines the opposite of the flow and try to catch any that comes out on a rag.

Then of course you have to have the proper type of oil which for years on Ford's has been pag 46 and the proper amount in the compressor and add extra for what you have removed by flushing and blowing things out.

The term Black Death was typically used to refer to conversions that went bad.
The most common way to get the black sick problem is from having any type of PAG oil in a system with any trace of a chlorofluorocarbon or maybe it's just fluorocarbon refrigerant.
If you pop one little bit of r12 or even what's in the oil and coating the inside of the system on a system that originally had r12 and then you put pag in there it will break down the pag oil into a black slime.
This is why on all retrofit systems you use an ester oil.
Any system that originally came with 134a should not have any problems with black death unless someone somehow put the wrong refrigerant in or had contaminated equipment when installing refrigerant.

But remember, basically, an AC system it's just one big circular pump. The compressor is the pump and the refrigerant does the magic.
It changes state twice in a cycle I guess you could say and even though it's not really cooling, it's really giving heat, it sure feels like it's creating cold to us.
It's very similar to a spray bottle just spraying a fine mist of liquid into the evaporator but because of the magic of refrigerants it makes that evaporator almost ice cold. Then the vapor comes back out and gets pumped through the condenser. The condenser by definition allows it to condense back into a liquid and the cycle continues.
As long as the pump, compressor, is somewhat efficient and can maintain the pressure is necessary, and the flow is maintained without any significant restrictions , and airflow is maintained over the condenser so the condensing can occur... The system will cool.

One big pump with the magic of refrigerants!
It's interesting to read up about refrigerants like ammonia and butane or butane propane Blends. They work quite well as refrigerants and have actually been popular in some forms of refrigeration.
Most all of those Internet only drop-in replacements that came out shortly after 1994 and are still quite readily available are some version of these flammable blends.
That opens up a whole new argument a flammability Etc but in reality there have been very few problems from them.
Cars don't really catch on fire that often but when they do it's almost always a fuel leak or an electrical problem and when problems occur, you have a lot more to worry about than 28 to 32 oz of refrigerant whether it is flammable or not.

I have used them a couple of times to give increase performance on vehicles in the early years of R134a were many of the systems were barely adequate. I almost always got an 8 to 10 degree reduction in vent temperatures versus the same conditions with the original 134a.
 
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