4th Gear Flare - Cold Trans

[SyndicateZ]

According to my invoice they performed an emission recall, which consisted of updating the pcm software that was causing the premature catalytic converter code and warning light, and heat. I actually had this happen to me, cleared it and it never came back. They also performed a transmission recall, which consisted of updating the tcm software that was causing erratic shifting, slow shift response, resulting in slamming into gear and heat. It is supposed to fix those issues by adjusting various settings. I also had the weird shifting where it felt like it was lost or slipping, then slammed into gear 2 times. My tranny temp was also always between 200 and 212 on the highway. Now it's 185-189. I looked in my app to see further information, but they already erased them and the service info shows $0 scheduled maintenance - other.

Maybe your dealer charges for TSBs, but I didn't pay for either one of the Technical Service Bulletins, for my 2019 Expedition Platinum. I received the bulletins in my Ford Pass plus got letters. I made the appointment, dropped off my Ex the next day in the morning, and they delivered it back to me at 3pm. Both were software updates for certain 2018 to 2021 or 2022 Ford vehicles, Expedition being one of them.

The transmission service they did was a TSB and not a recall. Anyone that doesnt have any type of warranty or esp would need to pay for any TSB performed. unless its an actual RECALL

 

[Mr Big]

The transmission service they did was a TSB and not a recall. Anyone that doesnt have any type of warranty or esp would need to pay for any TSB performed. unless its an actual RECALL

There was NO transmission service performed. It was a TCM software update and it was free of charge for anyone with or without a warranty. If they charged me under my factory extended warranty, I would have had to pay $100.00 deductible.
I will say my transmission shifts gears better, with a faster and tighter up and down shift pattern, than it ever has shifted in the past, even after I turned learning back on.

 

[Hellwig]

There are no recalls for the transmission. The issue with the weird shifts is a common manufacturing fail that Ford KNOWS about but declines to make it a recall and only a TSB. The only fix is a new CDF drum replacement, tranny rebuild. Which would be covered only if you are still under warranty or extended service plan and the dealer service dept scam artists can replicate while they take their quarter mile test drive...The dealer will do everything in there power to say they cant replicate the issue attempting to delay your concern until after you are out of warranty. Once u are out of warranty, they will then say with no hesitation "ah yes, we know about this issue and we can fix it for one million dollars"

lol. cynical, but true.

 

[SyndicateZ]

There was NO transmission service performed. It was a TCM software update and it was free of charge for anyone with or without a warranty. If they charged me under my factory extended warranty, I would have had to pay $100.00 deductible.
I will say my transmission shifts gears better, with a faster and tighter up and down shift pattern, than it ever has shifted in the past, even after I turned learning back on.

When I decide to bring my 2019 expy in for the seatbelt and emmisions recalls ill also ask about the transmission reprogram tsb. My tranny has the same symtoms yours did. 208-220 temps city and or highway driving with no towing and the harsh 4-6 and 9-10 shifts. Thell prolly look at me and say its normal and yell at me

 

[JAMADOR]

There is another TSB# 25-2132 for Trans issues.

Seems indicative of the issues we experience. Is this a customer pay service, or dealer covered? I'm out of warranty with no ESP.
Also, I'd likely have to leave the truck overnight so they could drive it cold, and hope that it happens when the tech drives it.

That's the real challenge with this one, it's not consistent enough to be sure it will occur every time.

 

[Mr Big]

Seems indicative of the issues we experience. Is this a customer pay service, or dealer covered? I'm out of warranty with no ESP.
Also, I'd likely have to leave the truck overnight so they could drive it cold, and hope that it happens when the tech drives it.

That's the real challenge with this one, it's not consistent enough to be sure it will occur every time.

Since it is a TSB and not a recall, which it should be, the one I read states, if you have a warranty it is covered, if you have an extended warranty, it is covered less deductible, no warranty you pay full price.

 

[JAMADOR]

Ugh, that's what I feared. Wonder what the CP cost on it is...

 

[Dice Roll]

Is this the one? I remember a tsb a few years ago. I think I need to ask about having it done. Getting a hard engagement fairly often. It’s always had a weird cold weather first run through the gears. Some guys reported a problem I can’t remember now and that coupled with the service guy basically saying he’s seen more problems caused by fixing what wasn’t broke pushed me away from having it done way back when. If my cdf is going away I’ll probably have to have this fix and have it fail before they can “duplicate” my issue. Seems to take 3-4 visits to get a repair made.

23-2123


13 April 2023

Ford 2018-2021 Expedition
2017-2020 F-150
2018-2021 Mustang
2019-2023 Ranger
Lincoln 2018-2021 Navigator

This bulletin supersedes 22-2139.

 

[Calidad]

When I decide to bring my 2019 expy in for the seatbelt and emmisions recalls ill also ask about the transmission reprogram tsb. My tranny has the same symtoms yours did. 208-220 temps city and or highway driving with no towing and the harsh 4-6 and 9-10 shifts. Thell prolly look at me and say its normal and yell at me

The coolant thermostat is faulty my 2019 had the same transmission temperature issue. The updated thermostat fixed it. Updated part in photo. Yes this faulty thermostat affects engine coolant temps also but those only appear at 228+ when it triggers the temperature reading over the dummy gauge.

Highway transmission temps should run 180-200 under normal conditions.
In town stop and go 190-201 is typical.

212 transmission temp triggers the fan and disables the Auto start stop.

Get the coolant thermostat done first. $40 part 30 min job. Be ready to fight with your dealer!! Even with a warranty mine tried to soak me for $850. My local guy $190hr shop rate would have charged me $200 to do it. I told the dealer since they obviously can’t do a simple job under warranty I’ll have a trusted shop do it and file for reimbursement with Ford. This would trigger a call from HQ asking the dealer why they can’t do a simple job under warranty? All of a sudden the dealer was able to do the job and had it done under warranty in an hour.. Hmmm….

Be prepared to fight to get it fixed

 

[SyndicateZ]

The coolant thermostat is faulty my 2019 had the same transmission temperature issue. The updated thermostat fixed it. Updated part in photo. Yes this faulty thermostat affects engine coolant temps also but those only appear at 228+ when it triggers the temperature reading over the dummy gauge.

Highway transmission temps should run 180-200 under normal conditions.
In town stop and go 190-201 is typical.

212 transmission temp triggers the fan and disables the Auto start stop.

Get the coolant thermostat done first. $40 part 30 min job. Be ready to fight with your dealer!! Even with a warranty mine tried to soak me for $850. My local guy $190hr shop rate would have charged me $200 to do it. I told the dealer since they obviously can’t do a simple job under warranty I’ll have a trusted shop do it and file for reimbursement with Ford. This would trigger a call from HQ asking the dealer why they can’t do a simple job under warranty? All of a sudden the dealer was able to do the job and had it done under warranty in an hour.. Hmmm….

Be prepared to fight to get it fixed

Just normal driving around the city or highway in the winter no tow and just mr in vehicle my trans temps would be atleast 212 up to 218. In the summer it was pushing 225. The fans are always running sounding like a super turbine in there

 

[Dice Roll]

The stat is well worth doing. Solved my issues with temps. I was starting to see the coolant temps bounce. The trans is way better now running 180-192 usually.

I need to look at the trans programming tsb because since the emission recall that just came out was done, the relearn was triggered and it’s not acting right. I had the cold shift problem since new, but the harsh engagement is new. If the tsb I posted is what has helped others, I need that one. Appears the computer doesn’t compensate for wear and would explain why a relearn after tens of thousands of miles would screw the thing up.

 

[JAMADOR]

I don't see coolant temps, engine or trans, [indicated] higher than normal, but do notice that the fan does seem to run more often than I'd think is 'normal'.

 

[Calidad]

Just normal driving around the city or highway in the winter no tow and just mr in vehicle my trans temps would be atleast 212 up to 218. In the summer it was pushing 225. The fans are always running sounding like a super turbine in there

Yep bad thermostat in the coolant loop. Ford redesigned it due to this issue.

The transmission temp is affected via heat exchanger cooling loop. Once you get a functioning thermostat in the coolant system you will see immediate improvement in normal transmission temps. Pulling my 9000lb boat 200-220 temps are possible but cooling off happens quickly to sub 200
Before the thermostat replacement cooling below 210 was not happening

 

[SyndicateZ]

Yep bad thermostat in the coolant loop. Ford redesigned it due to this issue.

The transmission temp is affected via heat exchanger cooling loop. Once you get a functioning thermostat in the coolant system you will see immediate improvement in normal transmission temps. Pulling my 9000lb boat 200-220 temps are possible but cooling off happens quickly to sub 200
Before the thermostat replacement cooling below 210 was not happening

How come service advisors dont know any of this when I ask about high temps and changing out my thermostat and they look like im an alien? Oh i know, they dont make commision on warranty repairs

 

[Calidad]

How come service advisors dont know any of this when I ask about high temps and changing out my thermostat and they look like im an alien? Oh i know, they dont make commision on warranty repairs

Because dealers are 3rd party companies selling most of their high profit services to customers who have zero idea. They make more $ selling mileage based dealer service packages aka $2000 oil changes. Vs doing warranty repairs at fixed prices.

You have 6.5 hours of shop time with Jimmy in bay 5 you can sell 6 $2000 oil changes or loose $1800 an hour filling those time slots with warranty thermostat jobs. Pretty simple discourage the thermostat fix sell more $2000 oil changes

 

[Dice Roll]

I’m trying to get them to do the tsb reprogram on mine when the valve cover leak is done. The service guy did staple the print out I gave him to the work order. Hope they do it and hope that clears up the hard engagements and hard shifts.

 

[Dice Roll]

Just delivered back to me. Will take some time to relearn again so won’t k kw true outcome for awhile.

Here’s the work order.