A Dying Breed

[JExpedition07]

I don’t understand why people worry about such small “resources“ being wasted on these trucks. They are commuter vehicles and don’t consume much money. Anyway, make more money, burn more gas is what I say and be happy with what you drive. I’m a single guy in my early twenties and I love my Expedition EL with the 5.4 Triton. It’s fine on gas @15 mpg average. It hauls my boat, takes me camping, fits drywall, 4WD, V8 sound. I’d never own a car with more “efficiency” because they aren’t capable vehicles and they can’t support my lifestyle or work. Nobody will ever make me feel guilty for daily driving a 6,000 pound truck...I can eek 20 MPG out on the highway, that’s impressive with what this truck can do and what I carry inside.

 

[MasterX]

Electric vehicles have their purpose, to be launched into space, just as Elon Musk! Ill take my bolt on horsepower and torque that does not require me to recharge for long periods of time. I drove my GT non-stop to Sacramento from Phoenix, and then back two days later, opened it up pretty good along the way, bumped off 155+ when smokey came calling before blacking out the lights and dipping off into the darkness via the E-Brake and watching him fly past obliviously and go off to get lost looking for me. My longest stop was when i had to drop a log, I ate and drank in the car while cruising, and made the trip in just about 9 hours. Thats 755 miles according to google, you do the math, and show me a EV that can do the same!

@JExpedition07 I guess we crossed streams, your post appeared when i posted mine, I fully agree with the complete difference in capabilities, The Expedition properly equipped is a rough and tumble machine that when properly maintained will not strand you, will plow over obstacles in your path, and take a substantial amount of abuse, and keep right on trucking as long as you keep its thirst quenched.

And even when not properly maintained, It still does a hell of a job, and is highly likely to still at least cross the finished line, even if in limp mode, again, as long as you keep its thirst quenched.

Most people do not see all the new electronics that went with the 3V engines, the ability to keep rolling even without coolant, without a working throttle body, with countless other breakdowns, short of an actual hard part mechanical failure, it will still roll forwards in most cases.

 

[JExpedition07]

For what it’s worth smaller displacement doesn’t equate to fuel economy. A big V8 just loafs lazily down the road nice and easy at low revs and doesn’t chew much gas. That’s why those old crown Vic V8s were good on gas. They strolled along at 1,000 rpm. The new V6 vans and Taurus vehicles with the V6 Duratec run a lot more RPM.

 

[MasterX]

(Fast | Reliable | Cheap) HINT: You can only have 2 of these options, never all 3.

(Small Displacement | Big Power | High Reliability) HINT: The same rule above applies here too!

Funny story, a co-worker had and recently sold a 2015 Mustang Ecoboost. He claimed he sold it because he needed something with a bigger back seat, but he is full of it, he sold it due to the following realization finally sinking in after almost a year of learning it over and over.

He constantly bragged how his Ecostang had more torque than mine(he looked it up online), and how he would smoke me, we raced, he lost, over and over, even went so far as to get a tuner and tunes to add what they claimed was 50-70 ft-lbs, he still lost, and discovered a new problem. While the tune allowed him to get closer to keeping up on the first pass, he then ended up loosing timing and even getting minor detonation which auto-retarded his timing into the toilet on the second pass due to so much heat saturation due to the turbo/intercooler etc, and the tune being too hot for the cars design specs.

He fussed with tune changes for months, insisted it was fixed and then lost some more, in the end he sold the car in frustration.

He never understood that just because he makes more power than i did on paper in theory, A, theory and reality and usually not identical, and B, he makes that power at full boost/full spool at high/peak RPM, i make it a WHOLE LOT sooner, at much lower RPMs, and especially on the 4.6L 3V V8s, the HP curve never drops off on the Dyno sheet, it is still climbing almost like a straight upward line, all the way to redline thanks to the high flowing heads, Torque peaks out, but HP never does. I run out of RPM before I run out of power.

There is no replacement for displacement. There is such a thing as too small, with too much reliance on turbos making it stronger.

Ill drive an Ecoboost, Sure, Just as soon as its a 4.6/5.0L ecoboost, lol.

 

[07navi]

Smaller displacement does equate to better MPGs to a point of diminishing returns. The small cube ecoboosts seem to be holding up even with the turbos straining it. It does get better MPG's than the 5.4's but that's partly due to the direct injection, and look at the extra HP it puts out. My Etec direct injection snowmobile sips the gas and it has tons of power. Also who cares how many cubes it has as long as it puts out the power and still holds up. That direct injection and turbo is a winning combo. Much has been copied from racing engines of yesteryear like roller cams, turbos, fuel injection, ram injection intakes, long curved exhaust manifolds, electric fans, electric fuel pumps, cold air induction, etc but who cares as long as they took advantage of it.

 

[MasterX]

my point was, those high power numbers are so high in the RPM band, you very rarely use them, and when you do, you are revving the piss out of the engine to get it. Also lets not detract from the other reason for that fuel economy that had ZERO to do with the displacement and turbos, and more to do with much better geared transmissions. My 09 Expedition gets a lot better mileage and it has the same engine as my 2005, but with a 6 speed instead of a 4 speed, exact same rear end gears, and the 2009 also pulls harder at high speed, all thanks to a much better transmission with more gearing.

Those Ecoboosts would in most cases be absolute turds in the high speed or low speeds depending on gearing, without those newer transmissions with a lot more and better gearing. Its enough difference i have considered if i ever do an engine build on my 2005, i would also probably get the kit to put a 6 speed trans from a 07+ in it as well, and yes, the kit does exist, i have it saved somewhere, its a addon trans computer designed for this purpose.

 

[Boostedbus]

For what it’s worth smaller displacement doesn’t equate to fuel economy. A big V8 just loafs lazily down the road nice and easy at low revs and doesn’t chew much gas. That’s why those old crown Vic V8s were good on gas. They strolled along at 1,000 rpm. The new V6 vans and Taurus vehicles with the V6 Duratec run a lot more RPM.

I’ve heard that’s one of the reasons Ford roller cammed those old 302 Windsor Vic and Mustang engine’s. It was because too much idling in Police cruisers and barely above idle while cruising causing wiped cams from lack of sufficient oil pressure. Chevrolet small blocks without roller tappets of that era were known for wiping cams. Ford really stretched the life of those pushrod engines by doing this. You combine with way less rpms with overdrive transmissions and it equals a long reliable life. I actually owned a 93 4.6 Crown Vic way back and still say they were probably the best and most reliable vehicles ever made. They were fairly cheap to buy used and had lots of room, comfort, power, decent economy, safety, and reliability.....Best car on the road for the $$$ in my opinion. Oh and if you’ve ever watched “Alaskan State Troopers” you would know you don’t need front wheel drive to go through snow like a champ.

 

[07navi]

my point was, those high power numbers are so high in the RPM band, you very rarely use them, and when you do, you are revving the piss out of the engine to get it. Also lets not detract from the other reason for that fuel economy that had ZERO to do with the displacement and turbos, and more to do with much better geared transmissions. My 09 Expedition gets a lot better mileage and it has the same engine as my 2005, but with a 6 speed instead of a 4 speed, exact same rear end gears, and the 2009 also pulls harder at high speed, all thanks to a much better transmission with more gearing.

Those Ecoboosts would in most cases be absolute turds in the high speed or low speeds depending on gearing, without those newer transmissions with a lot more and better gearing. Its enough difference i have considered if i ever do an engine build on my 2005, i would also probably get the kit to put a 6 speed trans from a 07+ in it as well, and yes, the kit does exist, i have it saved somewhere, its a addon trans computer designed for this purpose.

I doubt if you can you can give the trans all the credit, there is a lot more that can cause the MPG diff between your 2 trucks, also all the sellers of the ecoboost say the power is at low rpms mainly. I am aware of hype but I don't get it.

 

[07navi]

I’ve heard that’s one of the reasons Ford roller cammed those old 302 Windsor Vic and Mustang engine’s. It was because too much idling in Police cruisers and barely above idle while cruising causing wiped cams from lack of sufficient oil pressure. Chevrolet small blocks without roller tappets of that era were known for wiping cams. Ford really stretched the life of those pushrod engines by doing this. You combine with way less rpms with overdrive transmissions and it equals a long reliable life. I actually owned a 93 4.6 Crown Vic way back and still say they were probably the best and most reliable vehicles ever made. They were fairly cheap to buy used and had lots of room, comfort, power, decent economy, safety, and reliability.....Best car on the road for the $$$ in my opinion. Oh and if you’ve ever watched “Alaskan State Troopers” you would know you don’t need front wheel drive to go through snow like a champ.

I always liked those Crown Vics and I'm glad they opted for it to get the job done and save tax payers gas money, I hated to see them go (and no I was never in one...…..lol). I do agree with everything you say above.

 

[joethefordguy]

I didn't buy my Expy for daily driving, though that is what I use it for. If that was my goal, I would have a bought a toy tacoma, or some such.
I bought a used former fire truck (police package) 4x4 SUV because I want to be prepared. Being prepared comes at a price.