Anti-Theft System ?
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Bedrck47
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Stamp
Prints appear to match the factory prints
Prints appear to match the factory prints
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After reviewing the distribution wiring, it looks like the PCM relay and Diode are wired in with the PAT, instrument cluster, and the Coil on plugs and radio noise capacitor. This is in line with fuses 29 and 30. But would any of these cause a 15 second delay if they were going out?
stamp11127
Full Access Members
Do you have a remote start or aftermarket alarm system installed, or previously installed? My son's van had an alarm system that would do what you are describing.
I am wondering if there is a short or weak wire in the loop that is causing this to delay. I have never heard of one and have researched the Internet and cannot find anyone having the same problem. That is unless they are assuming it is a crank no start issue. Wonder how many would wait 15 seconds with the key in the run position and have the same issue... Makes you think... Hmmm
Have you guys asked anyone else having hard start issues if they have waited 15 seconds and the vehicle starts? Just wondering if anyone else has the same issue. As soon as I get time. I am going to recheck all the fuses, relay, and Pins for voltage readings and note each of them with key off, in run, and crank mode to see if there is a difference. That is all I know to do at this point unless you have other suggestions.
At this point I am looking at fuses:
Central Junction box (Interior):
2(5a) PCM
4 (7.5a) Remote entry module
6 (5a) GEM
8 (5a) Remote entry module & GEM module
14 (15a) Battery Saver relay
15 (5a) PCM module inputs & GEM module
20 (5a) GEM module & memory module
21 (15a) starter relay & feed Fuse 20
30 (30a) Passive ant theft transceiver, ignition coils, PCM relay
Relay 2 Battery saver relay
Battery Junction Box (engine):
2(30a) PCM module
10(20a) Fuel pump
18(15a) PCM, fuel injectors, fuel pump, MAF
103(50a) Junction box battery feed
111(40a) Ignition switch battery feed (run/start circuit)
113(40a) Ignition switch battery feed (run & accessory circuits)
Relay 301 fuel pump
Relay 304 PCM
501 PCM diode
There are some secondary fuses that appear to be on the same circuit as the one's listed above. I am going to check them as well.
CJbox
3(20a)
12(15a)
13(20a)
29(5a)
The hard part is going to be to trace anything I find without knowing the actual location of some of the modules or hidden relays up under the dash.
If you have a diagram or any pics that show the location of some of these items, it would be greatly appreciated.
At this point I am looking at fuses:
Central Junction box (Interior):
2(5a) PCM
4 (7.5a) Remote entry module
6 (5a) GEM
8 (5a) Remote entry module & GEM module
14 (15a) Battery Saver relay
15 (5a) PCM module inputs & GEM module
20 (5a) GEM module & memory module
21 (15a) starter relay & feed Fuse 20
30 (30a) Passive ant theft transceiver, ignition coils, PCM relay
Relay 2 Battery saver relay
Battery Junction Box (engine):
2(30a) PCM module
10(20a) Fuel pump
18(15a) PCM, fuel injectors, fuel pump, MAF
103(50a) Junction box battery feed
111(40a) Ignition switch battery feed (run/start circuit)
113(40a) Ignition switch battery feed (run & accessory circuits)
Relay 301 fuel pump
Relay 304 PCM
501 PCM diode
There are some secondary fuses that appear to be on the same circuit as the one's listed above. I am going to check them as well.
CJbox
3(20a)
12(15a)
13(20a)
29(5a)
The hard part is going to be to trace anything I find without knowing the actual location of some of the modules or hidden relays up under the dash.
If you have a diagram or any pics that show the location of some of these items, it would be greatly appreciated.
Flexpedition
Full Access Members
34.9 volts? That seems bizarre.
Bedrck47
Full Access Members
In looking at your wiring prints they appear to be correct. What you really need is a copy of the Ford Service Manual on DVD These are factory wiring diagrams which will show locations and connectors and pin layouts and much more info. You asked where the GEM module is located. It is mounted to the back of the fuse panel under the dash. Not the easiest to get to but with some patience it can be removed. Suggest you get a good flashlight and mirror so you can see under there.
Bedrck47
Full Access Members
Bedrck47
Full Access Members
When you first turn the key to the run position you should have voltage at the Plug Coils, The injectors and the Fuel pump. Now it would be very hard to get all three voltage readings at the same time but that is something you need to check. If voltage is missing at any of those systems you will not start.
Bedrck47
Will do. I will check coils, injectors, and fuel pump tomorrow.
I check as many grounds as I could find. Every stinking one of them are connected to painted surfaces. Everyone of them were green. Could not tell if it was painted or not. Cleaned them up and put dielectric grease on each one. Would a weak battery actually cause this issue. I have neglected to disconnect it when I am working on different things and it drops. After jumping it off, it reads 14.30 or so. I know the alternator is good. When it cranks afterward it only drops to about 10.30. I am figuring it is a good battery as long as I remember to disconnect it when I am doing preventive maintenance under the hood. I also believe the rear hatch should be locking when the remote is triggered but it has to be locked and unlocked by key. I need to check it as well.
I am guessing a voltage drop test should tell me if I am loosing power in the battery to ignition system by way of the coils, injectors, and the fuel pump. Is that what you are referring to?
Thanks for the assistance. It really is helpful.
Will do. I will check coils, injectors, and fuel pump tomorrow.
I check as many grounds as I could find. Every stinking one of them are connected to painted surfaces. Everyone of them were green. Could not tell if it was painted or not. Cleaned them up and put dielectric grease on each one. Would a weak battery actually cause this issue. I have neglected to disconnect it when I am working on different things and it drops. After jumping it off, it reads 14.30 or so. I know the alternator is good. When it cranks afterward it only drops to about 10.30. I am figuring it is a good battery as long as I remember to disconnect it when I am doing preventive maintenance under the hood. I also believe the rear hatch should be locking when the remote is triggered but it has to be locked and unlocked by key. I need to check it as well.
I am guessing a voltage drop test should tell me if I am loosing power in the battery to ignition system by way of the coils, injectors, and the fuel pump. Is that what you are referring to?
Thanks for the assistance. It really is helpful.
I forgot to ask. Where in the world is the G101. I looked all around the top of the engine, which is where it looks to be. I did find 5 ground on the firewall which I cleaned. Also found a few on the frame under passenger side and rear drivers side which have now been cleaned. I figured they went to the components I am dealing with.
Bedrck47
Full Access Members
G101 is on the firewall Also check your camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor for good connections.
Okay here is what I have found so far but still has not fixed the issue of "no start". Still have to wait 15 seconds to start.
These are actual items I found that did not work properly and are now working.
1. Wiring from multi-function switch to connector under dash replaced.
2. Wiring under passenger side for running boards spliced with butt connectors and heat shrunk.
3. Tailgate actuator and solenoid replaced. I thought this might actually fix the issue because of the PATS. I never realized it was not working because I rarely use the tailgate.
I also cleaned 5 ground points on the engine side firewall, three under the frame, 1 inside the front passenger side foot well, and 1 inside driver foot well.
I am really stumped. I have already replaced the crank sensor. I back probed it and the readings were off. I have not checked the cam sensor but will as soon as I am feeling better.
These are actual items I found that did not work properly and are now working.
1. Wiring from multi-function switch to connector under dash replaced.
2. Wiring under passenger side for running boards spliced with butt connectors and heat shrunk.
3. Tailgate actuator and solenoid replaced. I thought this might actually fix the issue because of the PATS. I never realized it was not working because I rarely use the tailgate.
I also cleaned 5 ground points on the engine side firewall, three under the frame, 1 inside the front passenger side foot well, and 1 inside driver foot well.
I am really stumped. I have already replaced the crank sensor. I back probed it and the readings were off. I have not checked the cam sensor but will as soon as I am feeling better.
Bedrck47
Full Access Members
Also clean the MAF sensor
The three item that you fixed should have nothing to do with starting Yet good thing you found them and fixed them.
The three item that you fixed should have nothing to do with starting Yet good thing you found them and fixed them.
Cam shaft sensor readings:
While running:
Low of .046
High of .160
Once turned off and keys out:
Reading of .170
It actually started the first time (surprised me).
Took keys out again
Reading .182 (cranked but no start)
Went as high as .190
Pulled key out and put it back in the run position and waited 15 seconds:
Reading at .193
Cranked and started
Low of .202
High of .208
It is not giving me a code on my Bosch OBD II.
Cannot figure this one out.
While running:
Low of .046
High of .160
Once turned off and keys out:
Reading of .170
It actually started the first time (surprised me).
Took keys out again
Reading .182 (cranked but no start)
Went as high as .190
Pulled key out and put it back in the run position and waited 15 seconds:
Reading at .193
Cranked and started
Low of .202
High of .208
It is not giving me a code on my Bosch OBD II.
Cannot figure this one out.
stamp11127
Full Access Members
The following is from the service manual concerning power to the pcm:
Power and Ground Signals
Vehicle Power
When the ignition switch is turned to the START or RUN position, battery positive voltage (B+) is applied to the coil of the Electronic EC power relay. Since the other end of the coil is wired to ground, this energizes the coil and closes the contacts of the Electronic EC power relay. Vehicle power (VPWR) is now sent to the PCM and the Electronic EC System as VPWR.
I'd check for a lazy relay and to make sure that the pcm is powering up on all power inputs when you turn the key on.
Power and Ground Signals
Vehicle Power
When the ignition switch is turned to the START or RUN position, battery positive voltage (B+) is applied to the coil of the Electronic EC power relay. Since the other end of the coil is wired to ground, this energizes the coil and closes the contacts of the Electronic EC power relay. Vehicle power (VPWR) is now sent to the PCM and the Electronic EC System as VPWR.
I'd check for a lazy relay and to make sure that the pcm is powering up on all power inputs when you turn the key on.
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