Brake Pads

[ManUpOrShutUp]

Akebono ACT934 ProACT Ultra-Premium Ceramic Front Brake Pad Set For 2003-2006 Ford Expedition or Lincoln Navigator

Type that in search.

That's is what I'm running in the front. I've got a set for the rear also, but 70K since I've owned the vehicle and the rears haven't needed changing yet.

 

[TobyU]

Every vehicle that I have ever owned has been on its second or third set of front pads before the rears need to be replaced.
I think of all the people that insist on doing all four at the same time and think of how much life of brake pads they waste by doing the rears before they are worn down to the chirpers etc.

 

[johnboneske]

I too have the Power Stop front cross drilled and slotted rotors and love them, OE rotors on the back, and Centric ceramic pads all around. Got them from Rock Auto for around $180 shipped all together. Have been on my SUV for around 60k and less than 1/2 worn, and i tow a big TT frequently.

 

[TobyU]

I too have the Power Stop front cross drilled and slotted rotors and love them, OE rotors on the back, and Centric ceramic pads all around. Got them from Rock Auto for around $180 shipped all together. Have been on my SUV for around 60k and less than 1/2 worn, and i tow a big TT frequently.

I'm just trying to figure out how people love, like, really like, don't care for, and all the other opinions on brake pads and rotors.
If we're not talking about a high-performance car that you do some road racing in and want to somehow increase stopping ability which usually has trade-offs of shorter life span.... then they are all the same to me. When the old brake pads are worn down to where they're chirping or close to the chirpers that you notice or a pad where is out and hits the rotor, or the rotors are really warped and causing pulsation.... I putting you on. Then all is fine. The only parameter I'm looking for is decently long life span of the pads.
I don't think I've ever had even the cheapest set of pads that didn't last over 2 years on a car. That of course would have just been throwing some pads on the old rotors without even turning them so 2 to 3 years is still quite acceptable. I used to buy organic brake pads at Meijer grocery store when they first open for 699 a set this was around 1988 or 89. I think they're semi-metallic ones were 11.99 or 12.99 back then.
MKD 52s full size GM 79 impala.
After AutoZone came to town about that same time I started using them for 8 years or so. 1699 to 1799 for the semi-metallic Duralast lifetime warranty were also excellent pads. I love the fact they were painted red so you can spot them and know where they came from. They stopped doing that after about 10 years.
Then my wife worked for Advance Auto Parts , actually got hired in as Parts America owned by Western Auto but shortly thereafter Advance bought them out, for 10 years so I had a nice discount there and was buying there WearEver brand.
Then an O'Reilly opened up only about six blocks away from my house so I have been using them ever since. I buy the cheapest house brand lifetime warranty. I don't even go for the up sale for the extra for $5 to get their select ones. I don't find his any difference except they have a pre-applied backing plate already on the select ones. I get four to six years out of all the ones I buy from there. For between 20 and $23 per set I can't see any reason to do it any other way.
Brakes feel like brakes to me. Until they start grinding because the pads are worn out or the rotors start pulsating they all feel the same.

 

[Plati]

Every vehicle that I have ever owned has been on its second or third set of front pads before the rears need to be replaced.
I think of all the people that insist on doing all four at the same time and think of how much life of brake pads they waste by doing the rears before they are worn down to the chirpers etc.

I guess if you're trying to squeeze every possible penny out of a set of brake pads and you are OK with running them down to the "chirpers" … then it doesn't make any sense to change them early. The caliper pistons will probably be OK after sticking out to the limit and being exposed to the elements. Doesn't matter if you're on a long trip when they do fail, you can just stay overnight somewhere and have it done and you will have saved a few bucks by running them to failure. Hopefully they wont fail on a long hill. And while you're at it … no need to change rotors unless you start to feel vibration , hear noise , or have some other problem. No need to change rotors at the same time you put in new pads … they will eventually bed in and you can just live with diminished braking until that happens. Also, buy the absolute cheapest parts you can find with no concern for any notion of quality , performance , life , dust , rust , or anything other than cost. The more expensive parts are exactly the same , simply cost more. You can easily clean your expensive wheels frequently and the brake dust wont damage them.

In fact, some pads with good life left on them can be obtained from a junkyard!

 

[TobyU]

I guess if you're trying to squeeze every possible penny out of a set of brake pads and you are OK with running them down to the "chirpers" … then it doesn't make any sense to change them early. The caliper pistons will probably be OK after sticking out to the limit and being exposed to the elements. Doesn't matter if you're on a long trip when they do fail, you can just stay overnight somewhere and have it done and you will have saved a few bucks by running them to failure. Hopefully they wont fail on a long hill. And while you're at it … no need to change rotors unless you start to feel vibration , hear noise , or have some other problem. No need to change rotors at the same time you put in new pads … they will eventually bed in and you can just live with diminished braking until that happens. Also, buy the absolute cheapest parts you can find with no concern for any notion of quality , performance , life , dust , rust , or anything other than cost. The more expensive parts are exactly the same , simply cost more. You can easily clean your expensive wheels frequently and the brake dust wont damage them.

In fact, some pads with good life left on them can be obtained from a junkyard!

I know you are mostly being facetious but I don't buy the absolute cheapest rotors and pads. I buy quite adequate ones.
I buy Brake Best or even Brake Best Select sometimes and I used to use a lot of Wearever Silver series. Not the cheapest ones on ebay I can find.
Lifetime warranty and never had any problems or what I would feel is short life and never any performance or operational inadequacies.

BTW, you will find lots of shop mechanics that push the always change or turn rotors or if you replace one side rotor you have to do both....BUT that is almost completely playing the "fear" card because "It's your brakes" you know.

If a car has no vibrations or grooves in rotors there it is completely fine to put a new set of pads to replace the worn down set and the car will still stop just fine and safe and within any safety parameters if was designed to.

Back to rear pads. There is 100% no safety reason to do the rears at same time as fronts UNLESS they have the dame amount or wear. That is the ONLY way you can make a case for anything other than convenience.
In most cases if the fronts were down to let's say 30% pad left, the rears would still be at 60-70, maybe 80%. Zero reason to replace them just because you are doing front.

Caliper pistons have a boot to cover the pistons so sticking out is not really an issue near as much as caliper boots and hardware (pins and boots) being in good condition and greased and free to move.
As a matter of fact it is worse to a piston to be in the same relative position all the time. It can even start to seep and if when you put new pads on and push them in the area there is better and less worn or rusty and no seepage at all.

I guess some put new calipers and hoses on with every brake job. Real waste unless you vehicle is not a standard passenger vehicle used for standard use which is very low duty.
Certain applications merit going through things on a more regular basis not only by miles or wear...but not 95th percentile of vehicle and especially SUV grocery getters.

 

[Plati]

I agree with the rear's replacement comments - 100% … do exactly the same. Seems like the rears are 2X or 3X lasting as fronts. I will take apart the brakes and replace them on occasion just because it keeps the bolts from getting in there too permanently & it means they are then set again for another few years. On an old Expy like my 2003 … its a necessity to get to the parking brake every 3 years or so, clean everything up and make sure it all works. Mine rusts up bad. Also if you let it go too long its a bear to get the hat off so I've been known to put on a new rotor in the back while I still can remove it. But that there again - some people just give up on the parking brake after a certain number of years.

Calipers I would not touch until they become a problem. Even if one side goes bad, just replace that side leave the other alone.

Brake Fluid. Some like to flush the fluid and replace it every few years. I still have a lot of original fluid in my 2003. I'm not a believer in regular brake fluid flush.

I have put new pads on without doing rotors. In the past even if rotors were deeply grooved. It worked fine and they just bed in to make both shapes match. That was the days when I was trying to save money and it was fine. These days I'm more likely to refresh everything and start from scratch while I'm in there with it all apart and I'm starting from square one. My 2003 has quite grooved rotors right now. I don't think they brakes work as well like that but its a Beater - could go to the junkyard any day and I'm trying to milk whatever life I can get out of it and not put money in it unless its absolutely required. I have a leaking rear differential side shaft seal and I will not repair that, just add fluid when required. Leaks very slowly.

Turning rotors - another thing I don't believe in. Rotors are cheap enough, just replace them. Many people don't agree with that. That's fine, its America and lots of opinions. I would endeaver to keep both front wheel brakes "equivalent" and if one rotor needed replacement it would seem like the odds are it makes sense to do the other side at the same time. My opinion.

The "fear card". It could also be the "conservative card" or the "risk aversive card" or the "do the best I can card". Nothing wrong with having new stuff in new condition if that's what helps you sleep at night and you feel good about it. I wont run tires that get down to 5/32" tread, some will happily run them until they pass the coin test. I've seen hydroplaning and I don't want any part of it. I like have good shoes on my feet and pay up for it - happily.

I just bought a new Cub Cadet rider and the advice they gave me about winter storage is EXACTLY what you said. I will go with that. Gonna go with that on my blower next year too. I like to get a lot of opinions and then follow the ones that seem credible.

Yes the boots are more important and a major source of eventual failure but I still like to keep my piston travel low. I really thought the boot didn't cover the whole piston when its way out but I could be wrong. I'm wrong a LOT!!! I keep thinking and asking questions though trying to improve. It bugs people I know but I've found that's how I learn new stuff by asking questions and having dialogue. Thanks for that!

maintenance style. I have a 2014EL I want to keep in as pristine condition as I can. I use it for long distance travel. I will repair or replace any part that is less than optimum. I will pay extra for what I feel are better parts if I can. I also have a Beater 2003 one step from the junkyard. I will let things go south on that and run with problems as longs as its safe (pretty safe). I totally understand how every person and every vehickel has a maintenance style appropriate to the situation.

 

[TobyU]

I think that's the key, appropriate for the situation and appropriate for each person. It just gets really on my nerves when the sales counter guys at the parts store or people you know who are mechanics or work at garages or people on forums tout their recommendation as the only way or the only correct way to do something.
Then, when they can tell you're not buying into their Theory and you're going to do it your own way they typically start with the what ifs to try to make you think your vehicle will be really really subpar.

 

[Kenerator]

Just installed the second set of Raybestos Element3 pads and Napa Ultra Premium rotors on my 05 Expedition. I also use this combo on my Chrysler Town and Country and my daughters Ford Taurus. This pad/rotor combination is smooth, quiet, stops well and produces very little dust. I recommend not using the drilled rotors. I've never seen it in person, but I've heard of, and read about, stress cracks developing at the edges of holes.
https://www.brakepartsinc.com/raybestos/products/friction.html

 

[johnboneske]

The brake pulsing and/or shake you get when braking is from those idiots at the tire shops using those torque sticks! I ALWAYS, as soon as I get home after a rotation loosen all the lugs, and use my torque wrench to make them all even

A torque stick has a 10% variance, so between two jugs that can be as much as 30 ft pounds, since our lugs are suppose to be at 150 ft pounds. That will always cause the infamous brake pulsing...