Are there any real benefits from upgrading to a CAI like S&B and/or an aftermarket intercooler without a tune? Even if there aren’t any real gains in HP or torque, would the upgrades help with longevity in any way? I use my Expedition for towing a travel trailer a fair amount and I’m curious if there are any worthwhile mods without a tune.
CAI or Intercooler Without Tune
- Thread starter MHay
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JasonH
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The aftermarket intercooler will provide better and more consistent performance by reducing the temp of the charge air. No tune needed. I doubt you'll see any worthwhile performance improvement from the intake. Based on numbers I've seen, there's much more to be had on the exhaust side. I don't think either of them will improve longevity. The engine automatically adjusts timing and boost to limit the risk of detonation based on IAT and octane.
5280tunage
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I have both, and I definitely notice a difference, would it be substantially more of a difference with a tune, absolutely. I also love the sound. It just literally sounds like the turbos are happier. I went with an AFE power CAI and a Mishimoto intercooler. The AFE CAI was really nice and I opted for the improved dual cone filter for more surface area. I also really really liked the Mishimoto IC. For the money, and the fact that it had a lifetime warranty, I was very impressed. I think the only thing I wish I had was better IC piping (mandrel pipes, instead of crappy plastic stuff), but there are few options out there and the few I could find cost more than the IC almost.
Big H
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FMIC is next on my list as well. Will upgrade before summer. Mine has the 5Star tune on 93 octane running. I also have the S&B CAI with catch can. Decent set up, but I’d love to get the charge pipes in metal and the down pipe with exhaust. Just don’t want too much drone in the cabin. This car isn’t that well sound proofed.
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5280tunage
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I actually have the turbo adapters, downpipes, and exhaust sitting in boxes in the garage. I've been waiting to install them since I've been fighting Ford over the rattling turbo's. Literally, I've only seen this much incompetence in a "Customer Service" organization a few times in my life. But I was holding off, just in case Ford finally approves the turbo replacements. On one hand I feel like now that it's documented the rattling is happening, they couldn't later blame it on downpipes and exhaust, but at the same time, they know most customers won't go the legal route to fight them on it. (p.s. I'm not far from that at this point).
But I too have the catch can, and really, I've been happy as heck with the mods I have. Where I am, 93 octane isn't available within probably 50 miles, so if I ever went with a tune, it would be 91. But heck, since fuel prices are about to go up 50%, we'll see if I can even stay at 91... part of my motivation for my current mods, is I'm at high altitude. So given that I've already lost about 15% performance, I was trying to get back a small amount of that, lol.
As for CAI, I really wish that AEM made a good one for this rig, I've run AEM in many cars, including a track car, love their stuff. But they are more focused on imports. OP, no matter what CAI you go with, make sure they include the extension tube for the air flow sensor. Should look something like the below picture. Without that, you will likely get CEL's/drop codes. In fact, I had a couple CEL's until I rotated it just right in the housing.
https://www.vividracing.com/wm.php/images/59-06201.jpg
But I too have the catch can, and really, I've been happy as heck with the mods I have. Where I am, 93 octane isn't available within probably 50 miles, so if I ever went with a tune, it would be 91. But heck, since fuel prices are about to go up 50%, we'll see if I can even stay at 91... part of my motivation for my current mods, is I'm at high altitude. So given that I've already lost about 15% performance, I was trying to get back a small amount of that, lol.
As for CAI, I really wish that AEM made a good one for this rig, I've run AEM in many cars, including a track car, love their stuff. But they are more focused on imports. OP, no matter what CAI you go with, make sure they include the extension tube for the air flow sensor. Should look something like the below picture. Without that, you will likely get CEL's/drop codes. In fact, I had a couple CEL's until I rotated it just right in the housing.
https://www.vividracing.com/wm.php/images/59-06201.jpg
TheDoug
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Before my tune I installed cai, intercooler and full charge pipes set. I really didn't notice anything except I could hear the turbos more.
Now I have a 93 5 star tune and it's a 3 ton rocket
Now I have a 93 5 star tune and it's a 3 ton rocket
joethefordguy
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what's a "full charge pipe set"?
TheDoug
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The pipes from turbos to intercooler (hot side) then from intercooler to throttle body (cold side). Replaces all the plastic and restrictive ford stuff.
I bought mishimoto brand charge pipes. Good quality.
Thanks for the feedback! Here’s what I think I’m hearing:
CAI - no real gains without a tune, but combined with the IC could expect some gains.
IC - improves temps, some performance gains without a tune.
Downpipe/exhaust - possibly more to be gained without a tune than intake mods. I won’t do a cat back exhaust on this truck since it’s a V6 and the sound isn’t appealing (even if it does improve performance).
I’m leaning toward the intercooler/CAI combo to start with over the downpipe because of the PITA factor. I watched some videos of the downpipe installation on an F150 Ecoboost and I’m not sure I want to deal with that!
CAI - no real gains without a tune, but combined with the IC could expect some gains.
IC - improves temps, some performance gains without a tune.
Downpipe/exhaust - possibly more to be gained without a tune than intake mods. I won’t do a cat back exhaust on this truck since it’s a V6 and the sound isn’t appealing (even if it does improve performance).
I’m leaning toward the intercooler/CAI combo to start with over the downpipe because of the PITA factor. I watched some videos of the downpipe installation on an F150 Ecoboost and I’m not sure I want to deal with that!
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I’m not familiar with this. Anyone with the S&B intake know if this tube is included in that kit?
Big H
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The tube is not included; it’s built into the actual piping. They do include the IAT sensor extension wire and O-Ring.
Tune = Most Gain, higher temps (fan is running all the time). Has many options for Octane and Performance levels (I have 6 for 89,91, and 93 octane)
IC = medium gains and cooler temps
CAI - better sound and small gains
Hope that helps.
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5280tunage
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Not true, at least not with mine, i suppose maybe the S&B's may have them otherwise. The extra white plastic tube actually goes in to the air intake headed towards the turbo (far past the intake piping, near the exhaust manifolds). It's specifically designed to modify the airflow around the sensor to prevent CEL's. AFE isn't the only company that uses these. Here's their site specifically describing the part. Magnum FORCE Spare Parts - Vent Tube Insert | aFe POWER
Big H
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Yes you are right. My point is that the S&B intake is a closed intake and designed not to have vacuum issues by design; resulting from the sealed box and tube design.
The white tube is meant to trick the sensor by creating a higher boost level due to the drop in vacuum pressure from an open intake box by thinning the passage way to the sensor.
Hope that’s more clear.
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JEFF WISECARVER
Member
MHay, does your Mushimoto intercooler allow for the front push bar install or no? I know some intercooler do and some don't...
I don’t have one yet (the Mushimoto or push bar) so I can’t answer that.
5280tunage
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The Mishimoto intercooler fits perfectly in the stock location. definitely thicker, and requires you to cut the vinyl plenum in order for it to fit (the videos of F150 installs show the vinyl is removable, but on mine it definitely wasn't, had to cut it off with a utility knife). But I don't see any way that it would limit the install of a push bar, obviously if you're push bar reduce airflow that could cause an issue, but otherwise I don't see why it would change the install of the push bar, it fit perfectly, loved it.
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