Crank, no start. @10 minutes - reset(?) - starts, runs fine.

Discussion in '2nd Gen - 2003 - 2006' started by Don Hall, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. Don Hall

    Don Hall Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    2004 XLS 4.6 --- 2nd event in 2 months.

    Drove the xp in the AM - all good. Shopped at Costco - no start to return home. Prior event I was in shock to notice any dash info. This time I had my senses - no security flashing, but still tried another key. Still no start. Fuel gage slightly above 1/4 tank.

    Waited for about 10 minutes in hopes it would reset as it did before. After about 10 minutes, it started up, and ran fine. Checking to see if it was a fuel problem, I filled up at the Costco station. The attendant let me keep the xp running during fill up.

    I noticed the fuel gage did not move as fuel was added. The nozzle kicked off, but the gage showed about half a tank. Attendant said he added 16 gallons of fuel. Being familiar with the vapor canister problem, I'm thinking that may be my problem.

    With the fuel gage reading just above 1/4 tank, I should have added more than 16 gallons to a 27 gallon tank. I may need new a vapor canister. Will have my shop test, and replace, if necessary.

    On the way home, the fuel gage moved to almost full. At home, turned off xp, then restarted....all is fine.

    Bought the 2004 in 11-2005 new...... 18,000 miles now.

    I'm badly crippled with arthritis, so I'm at the mercy of others---I'm 86.

    Thoughts ?

    EDIT: Online info suggests not to have the key in the 'on' position', or engine running during refueling. The fuel gage will not record accurately until the next run cycle.
    That answers my gage concern above.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018 at 6:11 PM
  2. 1955moose

    1955moose Full Access Members

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    I think you hit it. My 2000 has been doing the no start deal too. My feeling is leaning towards a failing fuel pump. I don't have any problem fueling or a premature shutoff. My pump is18 years old, its time! Check your fuel pressure, see if its above 32 psi, and holds pressure.

    Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Don Hall

    Don Hall Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the prompt response, moose. "I think you hit it" ....... what did I hit? .....vapor canister?

    Will add a fuel pressure test to the list.
     
  4. KC1903

    KC1903 Member

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    If you can check fuel rail pressure, of not consider replacing the fuel pump driver module which is located on the frame rail just above the spare tire. There won’t be any codes.
     
  5. Don Hall

    Don Hall Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Thank you, KC. Would a faulty/failing fuel pump driver module present the symptoms I have described?

    From an online source:

    Failure

    The fuel-pump driver module is the most common part to fail in computerized diesel engines. When first installed in the technologically advanced diesel engines of the mid-1990s, the modules were made from materials that were unable to handle their own high operating temperatures and the extreme vibration they were exposed to when functioning. In some model vehicles, such as General Motors vehicles made between 1995 and 2002, the failure rate has been almost total. Aftermarket units are available that use advanced electronics that create less heat, with an improved heat transfer pad to minimize retention of the heat. Pairing the fuel-pump driver module with the incorrect fuel pump will also promote failure.

    Symptoms of Failure

    Symptoms of a failing fuel-pump driver module all manifest in the performance of the engine. Difficulty in starting or a smoky start-up, stalling or uneven running while idling, hesitations and misses when driving, and power surges when in reverse can all -- separately or together -- be indicative of a failing module. Failure can normally be diagnosed electronically using a handheld scanner, with the model-specific code displayed that translates to the fuel-pump driver module.

    And, yes, there are no codes (should have mentioned that in my first post).

    Will add this part to my "test" list.
     
  6. 1955moose

    1955moose Full Access Members

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    Didn't realise the post was from you Don. Kc, the first year for the Fuel pump driver module was on the 2005 model with the 5.4. At least on the Expeditions, the F150 pickups might have had it in 2004. They had the 3 valve motor a year early, and the 3.5 engine 3 years earlier than the Expy. He had the last year 4.6 motor. On my 2000, I blew the fuel pump relay about a week back. Since replacing it, it started, but sometimes it doesn't start. My thinking, and correct me if I'm wrong, the pump is drawing too much current, and that's why it blew the relay, and intermittent won't start. I wait 10 seconds or so, I'm sure that duration will get longer, then fires. I think I'll order the motorcraft $290.00 ouch pump. I hate to take a chance on the cheaper ones. Anyone had good luck with Bosch, or Delphi, or any in the $100.00 to $150.00 range. My original went 18 years. Kind hard to argue with that Number.

    Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk
     
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  7. KC1903

    KC1903 Member

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    Two things to consider:

    A) every ford Truck I have owned represents an average on the fuel gage, so if you will with the key on then it will take a long time before it rises to a true level.

    B) the Expeditions have an electrical connector on the gram underneath the drivers door, failure or corrosion in the connector impacts the fuel level gage and it frequently reads E when physically only 1/2 tank.

    Good luck, sound like evap canister or vapor lock to me.
     
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  8. 1955moose

    1955moose Full Access Members

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    I only had one car that was hard to top off, my89 Lincoln Mark 7. It only gave me trouble at certain pumps. Others were fine. I think on that vehicle, I had a combo problem. It didn't hold pressure on a fuel pressure gauge, and the evap solenoid/ tank probably had issue. Did the smart thing, sold it for $2800 bucks, bought the neighbors Expy for $3000, and met all you guys!

    Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk
     
  9. Don Hall

    Don Hall Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks KC, and thank you for the good wishes.

    I have never watched the fuel gage move during refueling as the key is always in the 'off' position. This was my first time refueling with the engine running.. But, after prior fill-ups, the fuel needle always moved to the max mark rapidly after turning the key to 'on'. I don't know if operating the exp during refueling made a difference in needle movement today.

    I experienced a failed vapor canister on my wife's mustang. Symptom was a little different than what I am seeing on my exp. The only time she was aware of a canister problem
    was during refueling. The tank would only take about 1/2 capacity, then shut down. No start problem, or operational problem, just tank capacity.

    I have confidence in my shop owner/tech, so we shall see, and I will definitely report the findings.
     
  10. Don Hall

    Don Hall Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Nice story, moose. This forum is lucky to be the beneficiary of your knowledge, and talents. Always look forward to your informative posts. :waytogo:

    Any more 'noise' from me will have to wait until tomorrow..... off to bed.
     

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