Cranks - no Start - Intermittant

[Rich_007]

2001 5.4
Normally starts fine, sometimes it cranks but wont start. When this happens, I notice I cant hear the fuel pump when I turn the key on. Swapped out fuel pump relay with another one. No fuel at Schrader valve on rail when this condition happens. It used to happen only once in a blue moon. I had a system of turning the key on for about 15 seconds, then off. I would repeat this three times, and then put gas pedal about one third the way down and crank. It would roar into life every time I did this. That is until recently.
Now it fails to start more often and my trick doesn't work like magic as it used to.
I would just drop the tank and change the pump, but I am in an apartment and don't have the jack or stands needed to do it properly and couldn't do it in the parking lot anyway.

I think the only question I have left is: If its the fuel pump why does it never act up when the motor is running? Strictly a start issue.
What else can I check?

Thanks
Rich

 

[stamp11127]

It takes less current running than the initial startup. As the motors age the brushes wear and don't make good contact on the commutator.

Next time it doesn't start give the fuel tank a good smack in the center.

It is giving you a warning now so make plans on changing it before you get stranded.

 

[Rich_007]

Sounds right. Thanks.
Just wish there was an easier way to get to the pump. Might have to not drive it until I can afford to put it in the shop. I am guessing a dealer will find a way to turn that into a grand and a small shop will be half of that if I am lucky.

 

[stamp11127]

Not a bad job if the tank is mostly empty. I had one line connection that didn't want to release so the colorful language started flowing and off she came.

 

[1955moose]

As Stamp said let tank run low and put a piece of plywood on your floor Jack. Last thing you want to do is wrestle a 30 gallon tank that's full. 7 poundsx30 equals 210, yikes! Change that pump now, your getting a warning shot across the bow!

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[98eb5.4]

seen on other cars, folks cut access holes in the floor, also
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1220835-replace-fuel-pump-without-dropping-gas-tank.html

 

[Rich_007]

Thanks for the input guys.
Bottom line is I have to get this fixed and I don't have the place to do it. I could do it if I had a garage. New to the area and don't have any connections with a garage where I can lay it up for a day or two. So I will use the connections/friends I do have in this area to try to find and honest mechanic. I can swing the cost of getting it done. I am thinking if its just the fuel pump, I should be able to get it done for around $400 from a small shop. What would kill me right now is a less than honest one that gets it all apart and the vehicle gets held hostage for twice what the bill should be.

 

[Rich_007]

Called the dealer: First called parts and they said $518 for the pump. Have a friend that can get it wholesale, so I will see what that will be.
Then called service and they said ballpark (assuming nothing else is wrong) would be $1200 for the job.
I see pumps on Autozone and other places for $200. Rockauto has them for about $100. Is there any concern installing one of these after market pumps? I will spend a little more to keep it OEM, but I aint spending 500 instead of 100 on a 17 year old vehicle with 265K miles if there is no huge difference.

 

[Rich_007]

Found a local shop that has a great reputation and the labor estimate is in my price range. He cant get to it until next week. I need to figure out which aftermarket pump is best to put in there. I have been hearing some are fine and some are junk. Any recommendations?

 

[stamp11127]

Get a good pump from the vendors on this site.
I bought a Denso pump from Rock Auto for my 99 and have had no problems with it.

 

[Rich_007]

I will check it out. Thanks.

 

[98eb5.4]

What would kill me right now is a less than honest one that gets it all apart and the vehicle gets held hostage for twice what the bill should be.

even worse would be to find out the fp is not even the prob, happened to someone else in another thread,

other stuff is involved in getting power to the fp

 

[RonB1964]

Same thing happened to me. I rapped the fuel tank with a soft hammer to get it running, then replaced the fuel pump. That was over 110K ago, still running great.

 

[Rich_007]

even worse would be to find out the fp is not even the prob, happened to someone else in another thread,

other stuff is involved in getting power to the fp

Question: If I verify power to the relay and jump the relay, (pin 30 to 87 I think), the only possibility left is the pump or the connection at the pump. Is that a true statement?

 

[Bedrck47]

Agree with stamp11127

I went with a Delphi pump in my 01 expy and no problems

 

[Bedrck47]

Question: If I verify power to the relay and jump the relay, (pin 30 to 87 I think), the only possibility left is the pump or the connection at the pump. Is that a true statement?

Not completely true See attached print Power from the relay must first go thru the shut off switch then to the pump

 

[Bedrck47]

Rather than jumping the relay Just check for voltage at the shutoff switch But you will only see 12 volts for a few seconds unless the engine is running So what you need to do is connect your meter and watch it while someone turns the key to the run or start position.

If the PCM does not sense a running engine it will reduce the voltage that goes to the fuel pump motor

 

[stamp11127]

I would plan on replacing the fuel pump regardless of whether that is the problem or not. You stated that it has 265,000 miles on it. If that is the original pump you got your money's worth.

Once the tank is off they can easily check for power at the fp plug.

Swap the in line fuel filter also while they are at it.

 

[Rich_007]

I already got the filter to give them. I tried to change it when this first started but couldn't get the old one off. The mechanic was mentioning the pump names yesterday and I remember one of them was the Delphi bedrock mentioned. If that's good then I will drop the car off in the next day or two and tell him to do it. Here are some pics of the car. It is really clean in my opinion considering the miles and age. My brother in law gave it to me when we moved to Texas last year. Other than this issue, its been running like a top.

 

[Rich_007]

Just got back from shop. Going to have the expy there at 8 Monday morning. Going with the Delphi pump. He said it comes with new filter/screen and float assembly. Parts are 265 with tax and labor is right at 240. If I get it out of there for that close to 500 with the Delphi pump I will be happy.