Enter If You Dare

[dlcorbett]

Just wanna rant. As much as some of us want to love(or hate) the 18+ ford suvs, do we rele know why we love or hate them? Ive always been a fan of expys and navis especially the 2nd gen(05/06 navi is my absolute favorite vehicle of all time), however, the third gen has always been my least favorite. The third gen, esp the refresh, have always seemed like a halfassed effort from ford to just stay in the business. The bones are good, but just not nuanced enough, esp compared to its competitors and the sales show this. The interior design and materials are just horrific, no matter how you look at or defend it. I look at these new vehicles and wonder,
"Really Ford", the current expy is just not worth this much even with the discounts. Despite this, my 09 nav though not perfect, has been the best vehicle ive ever owned. This isnt about changing anyones mind or influencing any ones thoughts about the 18, its just my love for the expy/navi in general and why ive always wanted(bought) my vehicle, and getting an 18.

I love the design of the 4th gen. I never understood the hate of the design, as it follows what ford always done with the expy: make a larger, butchier, explorer. Ever since gen 1, the expy has looked like the current gen explorer at the time. The only difference was the 15my and that was because there was no bof explorer and the 18 my was delayed(ford wanted to can it). Many people say that the design is 2 gm like or crossovery, however gm only followed current vehicle design language(one reason why they sell so well), and the crossover design was to make it more fuel efficient. The explorer is the best selling suv in its class again for a reason, but i love the look.

The first gen suvs were game changers, capable off roading machines that drove ahead of there time. The 2nd gen improved this, but ford dropped the ball by not giving us a complete product(the 05my vehicles were the completed versions, but the 07 gms came out not long after). The 3rd gens, though beautiful in they own right(in the expys case atleast), werent ambitious at all compared to the new and brilliant competitors at the time. The germans came out with critical acclaim, the japanese updated their suvs with new unheard of features and better engines, while dropping the crossovers. Gms atleast gave tbeir trucks new features that werent offered by ford, like blind spot monitoring and magnetic ride suspension. To me, the 15s were 3 yrs 2 late.

No other suv, crossover, or 3 throw utility has as much passenger space as the expy. No other suv but gm has more 1st row room, but no other suv period matches the 2nd or 3rd row room. You would have to get a minivan to meet or exceed the same interior space and comfort, and thats only a few. For reference, no other suv/crossover pd offers more than 35in in third row legroom(discovery, gls and seq offer 35in), only a few offer 40in of sec row legroom, ford offers more than 40in of legroom in all three rows. Also only the chevy traverse and suburban offers more space behind the third row upright.

As far as full sized suvs go, not many are able to drive and handle as well as an expy. Though the 4th gen hasnt been driven yet, even the current models drive near the top of any vehicle, let alone truck based suvs. Even crossovers arent superior as the critics make it seem. as much as my wife likes the new mazda cx9, even she admits it didnt ride as well as the expy(17 platinum). Most if not all people who own the current model says they ride amazing, so if thats anything to go by, a lighter, more structurally stiff truck with a longer wheelbase will be even smoother and lither.

More than 350hp, 200+ inches long, 5k+ lbs in weight, more than 9k lbs towing ability with the ability to get 24+ mpg on the highway is astounding. Smaller amd lighter crossovers are barely gettin 26+ mpg with smaller i4 engines, im very intrigued. If your wondering where i got the number from, go to the lincoln navigator official page.

As much as ppl complain about the price, i would invite anyone to configure and price out a fs suv the same as an expy or navi with the same feature content and find a better deal. Ive tried to do it; the germans charge you for all luxurious features, the japanese trucks though with better build quality start higher and are missing many of the features the fords offer. The gms are more expensive and the features arent as capable(adaptive cc doesnt completely stop, park assist is only parallel park compatible, etc.) Hell, what other vehicle let alone 3 row utility can you buy at 70k where it has a massaging front row seat(outside fords own f150).

Dont get me wrong, i love the current expys, hell i love the 1st gen expys too. However, as much as i love the current expys, i cant lie, they are way too over priced for what they are. 55k+ for a vehicle with less features as a kio rio with worse interior quality is pretty insulting. The design might have changed, but the basic truck is over 20yrs old. Yes these are trucks at the end of the day, but if ford(or any fs suv in the market) saw these big boys as trucks, they wouldnt start at 50k. These manufacturers see them as capable, lifted luxury sedans, which they honestly have evolved into whether we like them or not. I understand this, as i also understand everyones personal preference about the old and new fords. I love these forums, i love these trucks, and cant wait to post about my new 18, whenever i buy(or lease).

 

[JExpedition07]

3rd gen is my favorite same interior as my F-350 loved the trucky feel of it compared to the newer ones and GM competition. It's a half ton truck not a car go get a BMW crossover if you want a plush interior imo. I like the 2nd gen as well but for the outside. This mindset has ruined the full size SUV turning it from its truck roots to a incapable car like platform with small engines and soft springs as you said. The problem is a lot of the market who wants a truck like priced SUV has been ignored for soccer moms. The new explorer commercial is pathetic... they dont have interest in selling real sport utilities anymore. To be honest they focus on the wrong demographic, that being soccer moms or people that don't do anything or tow anything with it. That segment should be ignored in favor of people who tow and work these Sport Utilities like what they are meant to do. They are trucks, yes that means cheap plastic interiors and a solid frame and big motor. And I agree it should be priced accordingly for the proper demographic.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

The 4th gens have actually grown on me to the point where I am considering maybe buying an 18. I know I just bought the 17 and I'd take a hell of a financial hit and a bigger one from my wife, but I really like what I see now that better pictures are available. Now I probably will not pull the trigger unless the dealer gives me a hell of a trade in and some big discounts for another cash deal. But, it's got me thinking about it. I priced up a fully loaded limited that was about $78K without incentives, my trade in is in the $48K range but I think I could get them up if I got serious and I could the price down. I bought 4 vehicles from them this year, I think I might have a little clout, maybe.

I'm definitely sleeping on this for a long time and probably will not do it but it is still in the back of my mind. The new blue color and all of the new electronics are really appealing to me, so I have to tread lightly.

 

[JExpedition07]

^ you got a beautiful truck Andy why trade it to take the hit? You've got a proven truck with a proven power plant that has years of improvement under its belt. What if the 18' is a flop like the GM SUVs with their major reliability issues? I'd wait and see how the new gen actually performs.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

^ you got a beautiful truck Andy why trade it to take the hit? You've got a proven truck with a proven power plant that has years of improvement under its belt. What if the 18' is a flop like the GM SUVs with their major reliability issues? I'd wait and see how the new gen actually performs.

Thank you. More than likely I will have this at least 5 years maybe longer. I usually keep most vehicles for 10 years unless external circumstances require us to make a change. We had my wife's old car for 14 years till it was practically un driveable or worth fixing.

 

[John Christopher]

Thank you. More than likely I will have this at least 5 years maybe longer. I usually keep most vehicles for 10 years unless external circumstances require us to make a change. We had my wife's old car for 14 years till it was practically un driveable or worth fixing.

Andy, thinking of all your options is half the fun. You can fantasize about having one without making the purchase. If you actually do decide to pull the trigger you may do better to sell your expy yourself. Take care. John

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Andy, thinking of all your options is half the fun. You can fantasize about having one without making the purchase. If you actually do decide to pull the trigger you may do better to sell your expy yourself. Take care. John

Thanks John, I thought of that as well although selling something that that expensive privately is always a little dicey. Finding the right person and getting the cash or the certified check can be very interesting.

 

[Artie]

The 18 model year will be our first family car and the Expy/Navi is about the only choice for something that can seat adults in the back row, and has 4x4. I’ve had other Fords recently as company vehicles and I beat the crap out of them and never once has any issues so I’m sold on their durability. I wouldn’t buy a GM due to the bailout. We went with the Navigator because we preferred the plush interior over the truck interior. We plan on using the 4x4 often as we are very active outdoor types who live in the southeast but have family in the southwest so there are forrest service roads and interstate road trips in this cars future. My big concern is all the new tech, I do not want to be in MOAB with some stupid tech failure I can’t fix. It will be a few years before a cross country trip for us so I’m banking on any issues being worked out by then. All in all I don’t think this platform can make everyone happy, it’s trying to please the truck people and attract family haulers too. We wanted truck capabilities with luxury creature comforts so we took the risk on the Navi. The previous Navi’s seemed like warmed over Expys but the 18’s are completely different inside and appearance wise outside. My feeling is if you want the truck get the Fx4.

 

[dlcorbett]

I dont think the newer suvs are any less capable than their older versions, in fact i think they are more capable. If anything, the softly sprung "mommy" suvs are more capable than most pick up trucks in certain respects. The land rover suvs and the toyota landcruiser have always been benchmark off road trucks, go anywhere land yachts, yet have always been the best driving "trucks" relative to their class. Just because it doesnt "look" like a truck doesnt mean it cant be as capable as one. And truck like look is relative. In the expys case, the 1st gen was the only truck looking expy for obvious reasons. The 2nd and 3rd gen share certain parts from the pick ups(and other fords) but barely share any design influence. The 4th gen interior is a carbon copy of the pickups, yet its still not truck enough. Its rele no different from any of its competition. Im so glad that the lincoln decided the navigator "is" a luxury vehicle built it as such.

With that said its highly possible that a truck can be engineered to look like confident macho suv that rides like a cushy car yet doesnt handle like a land yacht that can tow a boat haul the family and ride the rubicon trails...wait lol.

 

[Artie]

I dont think the newer suvs are any less capable than their older versions, in fact i think they are more capable. If anything, the softly sprung "mommy" suvs are more capable than most pick up trucks in certain respects. The land rover suvs and the toyota landcruiser have always been benchmark off road trucks, go anywhere land yachts, yet have always been the best driving "trucks" relative to their class. Just because it doesnt "look" like a truck doesnt mean it cant be as capable as one. And truck like look is relative. In the expys case, the 1st gen was the only truck looking expy for obvious reasons. The 2nd and 3rd gen share certain parts from the pick ups(and other fords) but barely share any design influence. The 4th gen interior is a carbon copy of the pickups, yet its still not truck enough. Its rele no different from any of its competition. Im so glad that the lincoln decided the navigator "is" a luxury vehicle built it as such.

With that said its highly possible that a truck can be engineered to look like confident macho suv that rides like a cushy car yet doesnt handle like a land yacht that can tow a boat haul the family and ride the rubicon trails...wait lol.

Your last paragraph is what I’m looking for lol I did pose the same “how capable is your 4x4 Navi” that I posted here on the blue oval forum, there has been zero replies. I may be the only Navigator on the north Georgia Forrest service roads with mud covered hiking boots and a mud covered luxury suv lol

 

[stamp11127]

Hey Andy, if you are going to take a hit you might as well blaze a new trail. Forget the Expy, be one of the first to get the high end Super duty F450. That bad boy will push you into 6 figures out the door.

 

[dlcorbett]

I think jexpy will be the first to blaze that trail lol

 

[JExpedition07]

I dont think the newer suvs are any less capable than their older versions, in fact i think they are more capable. If anything, the softly sprung "mommy" suvs are more capable than most pick up trucks in certain respects. The land rover suvs and the toyota landcruiser have always been benchmark off road trucks, go anywhere land yachts, yet have always been the best driving "trucks" relative to their class. Just because it doesnt "look" like a truck doesnt mean it cant be as capable as one. And truck like look is relative. In the expys case, the 1st gen was the only truck looking expy for obvious reasons. The 2nd and 3rd gen share certain parts from the pick ups(and other fords) but barely share any design influence. The 4th gen interior is a carbon copy of the pickups, yet its still not truck enough. Its rele no different from any of its competition. Im so glad that the lincoln decided the navigator "is" a luxury vehicle built it as such.

With that said its highly possible that a truck can be engineered to look like confident macho suv that rides like a cushy car yet doesnt handle like a land yacht that can tow a boat haul the family and ride the rubicon trails...wait lol.

You do have a lot of good points but the 4th gen is the least Truck like by Far. The 3rd gen shared the F-150 raised power dome hood and had similar headlights and belt line cues... the 4th gen is based off the explorers design cues Ford said it themselves whereas the 2nd and 3rd gen were based off of F-150 design cues as they have said. The 3rd gen expy interior had zero differences from my F-350 they are the same, they didn't share some parts they shared every single part. But your forgetting, what about people that need that capable SUV that can't afford to pay $70,000? That's what the expy and suburban were always for until recently, now they are forced to buy used. I would say your right though capability has improved at least on the expy. The explorer has lost all its towing and payload capacity and had its true 4x4 taken away... that is in no way more capable than the body on frame style previously made. But Ford is making good vehicles that are improving generally you are right.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Hey Andy, if you are going to take a hit you might as well blaze a new trail. Forget the Expy, be one of the first to get the high end Super duty F450. That bad boy will push you into 6 figures out the door.

Stamp, I'm crazy but my wife would kill me if I did anything like that. I fly radio controlled airplanes. My biggest 1-piece wing is 8' long so I need a big enclosed space and I like having the option of the third row seats. I also have a 1/3 scale Sopwith Pup WWI biplane. IT has a 90" wingspan but it is in three pieces. The fuselage is over 85" long and about 30" high when standing on it's wheels. They take some space.

 

[stamp11127]

Bigger planes require bigger trailers which require bigger trucks. So build a plane that needs the truck and trailer combo, the rest will be history....

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

You do have a lot of good points but the 4th gen is the least Truck like by Far. The 3rd gen shared the F-150 raised power dome hood and had similar headlights and belt line cues... the 4th gen is based off the explorers design cues Ford said it themselves whereas the 2nd and 3rd gen were based off of F-150 design cues as they have said. The 3rd gen expy interior had zero differences from my F-350 they are the same, they didn't share some parts they shared every single part. But your forgetting, what about people that need that capable SUV that can't afford to pay $70,000? That's what the expy and suburban were always for until recently, now they are forced to buy used. I would say your right though capability has improved at least on the expy. The explorer has lost all its towing and payload capacity and had its true 4x4 taken away... that is in no way more capable than the body on frame style previously made. I don't know what Road Ford is taking they have alienated a lot of their older consumer base. I here guys all the time say they will never buy a new Ford again because the prices have become to astronomical. I suspect Ford is trying to rid guys like me from their consumer base and become a classy expensive brand only.

I had a similar conversation with my salesman at the dealership earlier in the week. What he said, and he's been doing this for 30 years, is that what he has seen traditionally is that people will move to pickup trucks to get pretty much everything on the Expedition but at a lower price and only the staunch SUV guys like us, would consider paying full boat on a new one. I was fortunate to be in the right place and at the right time and had the cash to buy my truck outright. It is the cheapest way to drive it because there was no finance charges.

I believe we will slowly see the economy come back over the next 7 - 8 years. It is going to change and new industries will emerge and guys like me, my age aren't going to be the ones taking advantage of the new growth but it will get better for most.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Bigger planes require bigger trailers which require bigger trucks. So build a plane that needs the truck and trailer combo, the rest will be history....

LOL - my wife would love that. I have a kit for a Cessna 182 with a 120" wingspan. It is my favorite plane. I bought the plans and the kit 17 years ago, I just haven't found the time to start it and I do need to get after it because time is a wasting. (But that one will still fit inside the Expedition when disassembled, so there is a method to my madness.)

 

[JExpedition07]

Don't get me wrong I love the new vehicles, they are capable and powerful with lots of extras, I just see a lot of people who once could do it that can't now. I went with a pickup because the expy wasn't ideal for loading things in the back or towing. I love the Expeditions, they are def more comfortable than the pickup and can do a lot. I'd go right back to an expy before a car or crossover. When it financially suits me I wouldn't mind owning one of each but as of now one is it for me. If you want to spend money on a non dually ridiculous truck get an F-150 Shelby super snake. 750 horsepower supercharged 5.0. Woo hoo.

 

[gtnator]

Thank you. More than likely I will have this at least 5 years maybe longer. I usually keep most vehicles for 10 years unless external circumstances require us to make a change. We had my wife's old car for 14 years till it was practically un driveable or worth fixing.

You know, this reminds me of a good (and much older) friend of mine who is ultra conservative with money and always has been. This guy rarely ate out, rarely spent money on nice vacations, rarely spend money on anything really. He just saved, saved, saved which is good to point, but he was probably the cheapest person I have ever met. He would also buy his cars with cash, and keep them for minimum 10 years and longer if they lasted. Get the picture on this guy?

Well, one day I saw him and he said to me, "guess what? I just bought 2 new Lexus cars yesterday. One for me and one for my wife". I was shocked! Especially since he had just purchased 2 new cars only 2.5 years earlier!! This is the guy that drives them into the ground. So I asked him, WTF??! What's going on? You know what he said? I'll never forget. He said that now that he's turned 60 he did the math and realized that if he only buys a new car every 10+ years, he may only be able to buy TWO, maybe three more! (that age expectancy was from himself). And he told me that he LOVES cars too much to only have two more. SO, he decided he's getting new ones every three years from now on. He knows it costs to do that, but man, is he HAPPY.

I think he's current view is ok. If one loves cars/trucks a lot, and getting new ones is what makes you happy, then DO IT. The flip side of course, is that some people who love cars/trucks, are so happy with their current old vehicle that to them it feels like the first day they bought it every day. Everyone's different. But its all good.

 

[njja]

Thanks John, I thought of that as well although selling something that that expensive privately is always a little dicey. Finding the right person and getting the cash or the certified check can be very interesting.

Well you're in luck. Saw your post and signed up. I'm in the market so if you decide to dare to go for the 18, feel free to send me your truck's window sticker and asking price, along with a trade in quote from a Ford dealer is possible.