Error codes and error codes and more error codes

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gigantapithic

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Error codes and error codes and (update possibly fixed?)

Howdy,

First post was in another section of the forum - so I said my hello's there. :)

I'll just jump right to the problem. Owne my Expy since mid-June. Been driving it a ton since and everything has been fine. There's been an occasional shake at idle when cold that I wasn't worried about.

Today though it was much worse. Almost felt like it was going to stall. Could smell gas and exhaust. During the drive the expy felt gutless, like it was going to stall at lights, driving, etc. Was a little worried it was going to die on me. Got home and my neighbor has a OBD tester thingy. It returned the following codes

P0304 - Cylinder 4 misfire
P0059 - no code in the manual
P0172 - System too rich
P2196 - no code in the manual
P2197 - no code in the manual
P2198 - no code in the manual

My buddy is a mechanic but his shop is closed for a few weeks. I don't know what else to do - don't want to take it to Canadian Tire and get *****.

Anything I could do on my own?
 
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BIGRED03

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I would check the module that controls the fuel injection system on Fords. I cannot remember what Ford calls it but a parts shop can tell you. PCM? ECM? Just my suggestion if there are no other glaring culprits to physically look at under the hood.
 
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gigantapithic

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I would check the module that controls the fuel injection system on Fords. I cannot remember what Ford calls it but a parts shop can tell you. PCM? ECM? Just my suggestion if there are no other glaring culprits to physically look at under the hood.

Thanks - tried to find it but no luck.

Didn't turn over the first few times I tried to start today but finally did on the third try. Let idle for about 10 minutes before driving to the shop.

On the way there was a ton of white smoke coming out the back. It got better as I drove - but not nice at all.

Got home and noticed a gas stain on the driveway above where the exhaust pipe was.

Was searching for ideas on what it could be and came across this:

2005 Ford Expedition Bad Injectors | CarComplaints.com

Sounds like what I'm going through and I'm now worried my engine is toast (like a ton of replies in that link).
:favorites68:

Thoughts?
 
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gigantapithic

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Found this:

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/timnoll/2008-11-15_162530_Recall_07M08.pdf

It's a link to a PDF that says:

FoMoCo is providing additional coverage under Customer Satisfaction Program 07M08 to owners of certain 2005 Model Year F-150, F-Super Duty, Expedition, and Navigator Vehicles equiped with 5.4L 3V Engines.

The fuel injectors in your vehicle may stick in the open or closed position. This condition could cause check engine ligh illumination along iwth hard starting or rough running, and in some instances could result in damage to other powertrain components. In the interest of customer satisfaction, FoMoCo is extneding the limited warranty on the Fuel Injectors to a total of 11 years or 120,000 miles from the warranty start date, whichever occurs first. Covereage is automatically transferred to subsequent owners. This coverage exceeds the original warrant coverage provisions of your vehicle for this part.

Anyone think this sounds like my issue?
This letter references miles and I live in Canada, think it makes a difference?

I'm at 154,000 k and obviously only 8 years.

Thanks
 

BIGRED03

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Yes, I read a story about fuel injectors failing in the wide open position that started an engine fire. This can easily start an engine fire for you if you are seeing fuel stains under the car. If my math is right you have less than 96000 miles. As I said before it is certainly sounds like a fuel control issue somewhere in the processes. White smoke is an indicator of too much fuel being delivered as well. Looks to me you may be in luck for some new injectors courtesy of Ford. Good Luck
 
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gigantapithic

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Yes, I read a story about fuel injectors failing in the wide open position that started an engine fire. This can easily start an engine fire for you if you are seeing fuel stains under the car. If my math is right you have less than 96000 miles. As I said before it is certainly sounds like a fuel control issue somewhere in the processes. White smoke is an indicator of too much fuel being delivered as well. Looks to me you may be in luck for some new injectors courtesy of Ford. Good Luck

thanks - yeah, hopefully it works out that it's all on Ford's dime. Dropped it off today... Hoping I don't get the shaft.

I'll update when I hear back - I did have to agree to 2 x $160 per hour of electrical testing which if under warranty will be reimbursed. Seriously, $160 per hour of testing? WTF.

Surprised no other replies or no one else has experienced this. Actually more than surprised I didn't find this on the forum already or under the "what to look for when buying a 2nd gen Expy"
 
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gigantapithic

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So got an update.

Concern was verified, they did an Idf test power balance

Confirmed Cylinder 4 was misfiring, performed the required service, removed fuel rail, #4 injector leaking severely, replaced injector and O ring. Changed oil and filter cleared codes and reset.

Now there is an engine knocking.

Was told it'll be $1,500 to look into - if it's a problem due to the above we'll fix for free. If it's not you'll be on the hook for $1,500 then who knows what to repair, $1,500 to take apart, $1,500 to put back together, and maybe up to $6,000 for new engine, so $9,000.

What I'm thinking is - if it wasn't there before it should be an issue from the injector failure, what are the odds something like this happens right after the fuel injector dumps fuel into cylinder 4.

Thanks!
 
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gigantapithic

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I'm quite surprised by the few replies in this thread. Figured these things have happened to people and I'd get some more replies. Not that Big Red's haven't been good :)

So,

They've replaced the short block for free and the one fuel injector that is shot.
They've suggested replacing the other 7 injectors as they're aging and doing the plugs too as well as an O2 sensor and thermostat.

Total bill for me is $690 for parts, 7 injectors, 8 plugs, 02 sensor, and thermostat.
Labour is 2.5 hours (since the engine is in pieces) $375.

I'm not really sure what a small block is. Could someone explain. Is this a good thing? Am I safe from all the Ford Triton problems now? With 8 new injectors, 8 new plugs and a new small block or short block? Should I have anything else done while they're doing this?

Thanks!
 
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ZombieSoldier

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small block or short block? small block is what we all have in the expeditions. its a 4.6 and 5.4 motor. ford really doesnt have a big block anymore....

short block is if they are replacing your engine, the short block is the engine block with crank, pistons, connecting rods etc, just does not have heads, intake or any accessories. that would be a long block if they came with it.
 

truckinfouble

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My buddy is a mechanic and also owns an Expedition. We were talking about my wife's having a strong fuel smell in the exhaust and he told me he his did the same. He told me he had several stick and tried all kinds of things to figure out why. As a last thought, he swapped in high flow cats and has not had a problem since. According to him, the cats are too small on the 5.4 and cause too much back pressure. Couple that with the poor fuel in his area and carbon build up, he believes this is what was causing his to fail. This was several years ago, and he still has not had a problem with injectors.
 
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