Expedition (Ford) Quality Question

[gtnator]

Hi, I have a general question about Ford quality, which I would like to use to predict what quality we can expect from the 2018 Expy redesign.

The current Expedition receives the highest marks for quality from Consumer Reports. Compared to the GM competition, like the Suburban, there really isn't any competition when it comes to quality. Ford wins.

Now my question begins with redesigns. I don't know if the reason for the current high quality in the Expedition is more due to the super long run without what's considered a major redesign? (Thus giving Ford many years to perfect the vehicle). Or is high quality typical across the entire Ford brand?

Typically when there is a redesign, quality drops for a year or two while the bugs are worked out- this is a fact. But this doesn't happen to the same degree all the time, it can range from negligible to significant.

The best predictor of whether a significant drop in quality will happen, is the current quality across the entire brand (according to Consumer Reports). For example, Toyota has recently received high quality marks across the entire brand. This means that even during a redesign year, their completely redesigned vehicle will generally be high quality. There will be a few bugs, but nothing serious. Now contrast this with GM in the 1980's. They had poor quality, across many of their models. Redesign years produced vehicles with significant quality issues, and one would be advised to stay as far away from a redesign year as possible in this case.

So my question is, what will happen with the new 2018 Expedition? And to answer this question, one must first answer this question: How is the current quality of OTHER Ford vehicles? Are they systemically great quality vehicles?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.




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[dlcorbett]

You should def read the f150 and super duty forums, thats what i do. Because they are all based on the same frame and use the same materials, itll give you grou dwork and a basis of what to expect. From what i seen, 2015 models have a lotta kinks, but 16s and 17s less so. Also the 2.7l seems to be a bit problematic which we wont have to deal with. Also, as far as core vehicle, the issues seem very small if any, most issues come through the newer features how they are put together and how they operate, short amd long term. Ford has always been a quality brand, especially now since they changed their infotainment unit, the problems i see mainly deal with service and customer relations. My 09 navi outside the windows has been absolutely bulletproof, so i have no reason to believe my 18 expy wont be the same.

 

[gtnator]

You should def read the f150 and super duty forums, thats what i do. Because they are all based on the same frame and use the same materials, itll give you grou dwork and a basis of what to expect. From what i seen, 2015 models have a lotta kinks, but 16s and 17s less so. Also the 2.7l seems to be a bit problematic which we wont have to deal with. Also, as far as core vehicle, the issues seem very small if any, most issues come through the newer features how they are put together and how they operate, short amd long term. Ford has always been a quality brand, especially now since they changed their infotainment unit, the problems i see mainly deal with service and customer relations. My 09 navi outside the windows has been absolutely bulletproof, so i have no reason to believe my 18 expy wont be the same.

Good ideas and thank you for the information. Yes I agree, I have spent some time on the GM Suburban and Yukon forums and anecdotally, people seem to be having a LOT of quality issues with those newer trucks (2015-now). I feel bad for those owners.

Many, and I mean many have shelled out $80,000 for new Yukon XL Denalis that are riddled with problems.



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[dlcorbett]

My dads 15 escalade had a mirror issue when he first bought it but since no issues. It only has 15000 miles after 2 yrs of ownership though its mainly his roadtrip vehicle.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

In the family we currently have the following Ford Vehicles (oldest to newest) 2007 Fusion, 2014 Flex, 2016 Fusion, 2017 Expedition & Escape - we had an 05 Expedition that we traded on the 17 Expedition.

Prior to switching to Fords we owned Mercedes for 24 years. Over that span we had a 1980 300SD, a 1987 300 SDL, a new 2002 C240, new 2003 ML350, used 2003 E320 (bought in 2005), new 2006 ML350, used 1999 E320 4Matic (bought in 2007), used 1998 C240 (bought in 2008), and a new 2009 ML350. Before that we had Chevys, Oldsmobiles, a Honda, and a Nissan.

I can tell you with authority that Ford's quality is every bit as good as Mercedes. Mercedes may add more sound deadening material, leather, and wood to their interiors, but their cars still rust and have problems. The services are expensive and the cars don't all last much longer than American cars. The key is doing the regular maintenance and not skipping any of it.

The 2003 E320 that we traded on the 17 Escape had less than 100K miles on it but it was having a ton of electrical issues, The rear springs were broken and to replace them would have cost around $4K because there was the potential of having to replace part of the frame because the bolts were seized. It still looked good when we traded it. The 98 C230 was rusted out to the point of being unsafe to drive it was replaced in 2014, with a 2007 Fusion that was total by a neighbor hitting it in front of the house and it was replaced with the 16 Fusion. The 99 E320 had 221K miles on it everything was wearing out, the A/C had a leak and it was rusting out. We replaced it with the 14 Flex this year.

 

[gtnator]

In the family we currently have the following Ford Vehicles (oldest to newest) 2007 Fusion, 2014 Flex, 2016 Fusion, 2017 Expedition & Escape - we had an 05 Expedition that we traded on the 17 Expedition.

Prior to switching to Fords we owned Mercedes for 24 years. Over that span we had a 1980 300SD, a 1987 300 SDL, a new 2002 C240, new 2003 ML350, used 2003 E320 (bought in 2005), new 2006 ML350, used 1999 E320 4Matic (bought in 2007), used 1998 C240 (bought in 2008), and a new 2009 ML350. Before that we had Chevys, Oldsmobiles, a Honda, and a Nissan.

I can tell you with authority that Ford's quality is every bit as good as Mercedes. Mercedes may add more sound deadening material, leather, and wood to their interiors, but their cars still rust and have problems. The services are expensive and the cars don't all last much longer than American cars. The key is doing the regular maintenance and not skipping any of it.

The 2003 E320 that we traded on the 17 Escape had less than 100K miles on it but it was having a ton of electrical issues, The rear springs were broken and to replace them would have cost around $4K because there was the potential of having to replace part of the frame because the bolts were seized. It still looked good when we traded it. The 98 C230 was rusted out to the point of being unsafe to drive it was replaced in 2014, with a 2007 Fusion that was total by a neighbor hitting it in front of the house and it was replaced with the 16 Fusion. The 99 E320 had 221K miles on it everything was wearing out, the A/C had a leak and it was rusting out. We replaced it with the 14 Flex this year.

Thanks ExpeditionAndy! That was a great comparison study. You're right, you can speak with authority on this subject. The forum is lucky to have a member with this kind of brand experience, a direct comparison between Ford and Mercedes. Thank you!



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[ExpeditionAndy]

Thanks ExpeditionAndy! That was a great comparison study. You're right, you can speak with authority on this subject. The forum is lucky to have a member with this kind of brand experience, a direct comparison between Ford and Mercedes. Thank you!



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Thanks but there are many others here with similar experience. One of the reasons that I like the expedition is the physical size. You can't find that in a Mercedes.

 

[jeff kushner]

Andy my friend, be careful not to indict an entire brand over a sampling size of exactly one car. I understand what you are saying though and I agree about the size. I'm a single guy yet I drive my Expy because I want to and I'm fortunate that I worked hard when I was younger, affording me that choice!

To me, that is akin to saying Mercedes is near perfection because I have have very, very close to 200,000 on my SLK230 without a single factory issue! Yes, this little supercharged (modified to 12PSI) hardtop convertible has been the most reliable car I have ever owned....but I sure wouldn't put Ford on equal footing with it. The lack of weatherproofing alone would keep me from making that statement. Not to mention the fact that the car still has it's original starter, alternator, both were replaced on the Expy before 150K.

To make a point, as I mentioned in a different thread, my '03EB could not be made not to leak from the roof or windshield no matter how many tubes of caulk I emptied yet my convertible whose roof gets tucked into the trunk is still as watertight as it was the day I bought it, 15 years ago and it has a ton of seals and gaskets that just don't leak, ever!

My feeling or my opinion is that Ford does care about QC but tends to fail on the little things. Bad switch, rear wiper or fuse box design but typically, pretty good powertrains.

I have always shied away from 1st year models....and that is the reason I bought a 1980 Chevette instead of the Escort.....365,000 miles later, after replacing the timing belt 7 times (I got so good I could do it in 22 minutes while parked on the side of the road), 2 starters, 1 water pump and 1 alternator I finally traded it in but it even had the original clutch after all those miles.

The good thing is that if you take good care of your car/truck and there isn't an inherent design issue, nearly all cars & trucks are built to last you a good, long time as opposed to the 1960's where we "expected" to replace the following within the first 100,000 miles: water pump, alternator, battery, starter. All you have to do is to keep the oil clean and the joints greased.....

jeff

 

[hunter991]

I was seriously considering a 2018 expy mainly because the 17 was unattractive to me and was mostly a "truck" and not a luxury SUV. I ended up going with a 2017 Tahoe Premier. So far in 7000 miles its been trouble free except for a bad rear Bose speaker right off the lot. We'll see how well it does over time and i am not one to defend any brand against being junk. My tahoe is no better than your ford etc....

I have owned number of fords however, some good, some terrible. I bought a 2006 SCREW Liarat F150 and this truck was the biggest pile of crap i have ever owned and really turned me off to ford. It was the 3rd year of the new generation so i figured issues were worked out. But there wasn't a single thing on that truck that didn't fail i don't believe. Fuel injectors, transmission issues, the old 5.4 spark plug deal, wipers, power windows, door seals, radio.. you name it, it failed. It was obvious i got a bad one. The only issues are see with the new Fords are EcoBoost. I love the concept, idea, but i am wondering about longevity of a twin turbo that is mass produced. Could be that its fine, however, i want to wait til enough trucks get over 200k and see whats happening. I think all the mfg's have stepped up a bit concerning quality, but i just came from a Toyota Sequioa that was trouble free for 100k miles that really held its value at trade in. Would have bought another but i would have been buying the same truck as the one i had since nothing has really changed with them for 7 years.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Andy my friend, be careful not to indict an entire brand over a sampling size of exactly one car.

jeff

Jeff, you have me confused. I was comparing Ford quality after owning 9 Mercedes and 7 Fords.