Expy won't start after brake bleed

[phydeaux]

Good evening. I have caused myself an unusual problem and I don't know what or how I did it. I bled the brakes and now the Expy won't start. No electrical power anywhere.

This is what I did:
Turned the ignition to On but not Run. Pumped the brake pedal several times then rested weight against it. Turned everything else off - a/c, stereo, auto exterior lights, interior lights. Closed the doors. Bled the brakes. Got distracted by my wife asking for help and left the vehicle. Hours later she went in the garage and came back asking about a ticking sound.

I go out to inspect. I hear a rapid-fire ticking sound -- several times a second. I check under the hood and touch all the relays. A tow connector relay is vibrating, so I pull it. All other relays are not vibrating, and the sound disappears. I then check all the under hood fuses and see a 20A cig lighter fuse blown. I pull that too. All other under hood fuses are ok.

I then notice the headlights are flashing very dimly on the wall. I open the door and hear a muffled rapid-fire ticking. I pull the passenger fuse panel cover and it gets louder. I touch the big relay in there and it is not vibrating. I pull the relay anyway but the sound continues. I test every fuse and they are all ok.

I cannot find what is ticking inside the car. If I turn the key to On, the ticking stops. When I take the key out, the ticking resumes. I tested the battery connected, and it showed 6+V. I disconnected the positive cable and it shows 12+V. (Naturally, the ticking stops w/ the battery disconnected.) I now have a wall charger on it just in case (+ cable still off though).

I do not remember touching anything under the car or under the hood and unintentionally completing a circuit. My 1st thought was that by leaving the key in On, I had drained the battery. Now I'm not sure. I hope I didn't screw up the ECU. Is there another relay or two hidden inside the passenger compartment?

 

[stamp11127]

I would take voltage readings again. To bring a 12v battery down to 6v with a load applied indicates a high amount of current draw. The clicking sound is an indication of low voltage.
You have electrical power if the relay is clicking - just not enough.

Get the user manual so that you can look up the different relays and what their purpose is. That way you can state specifically which relay & circuit is in question.

There are relays all over in the cabin.

 

[phydeaux]

Thanks for responding to my question. I did check the battery again and it is now at 12.5V. I connected the + cable back to it and attempted to start. It nearly turned over.

After doing some more research online, I now think it's the battery. It's over 4 years old. So it may have already been on its last legs, and my maintenance today pushed it over the edge. I'll let it charge overnight and try to start it again.

I also learned how to test a relay tonight. The tow connector relay I pulled is good.

 

[Bedrck47]

http://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/factory-service-manuals.25089/

 

[stamp11127]

If you haven't swapped the battery yet, put the meter leads on the battery posts and have someone try to start the car after the battery is charged. I use a lower limit of 10.5v before condeming the battery. The normal limit is 9.6v at 80F depending on who you talk to. Yes I could get a little longer life from the battery but I could also get stuck somewhere.

 

[bloodhound]

Was it sitting for a while with the key turned to ON and weight still on the brake pedal? I'd say it wouldn't take all that long to drain down the battery with the brake lights on that whole time. Definitely just sounds like the battery.

 

[Autumnstang97]

Sounds like a battery to me. Hope you get it sorted quickly.


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[Adieu]

When an expy dont start, FIRST step:

Pop trunk, pop off trim cover marked Fuel Reset (drivers side rear, below third row seatbelt), find big button underneath....press and hold for a few seconds

Then try starting the truck

 

[Bedrck47]

When an expy dont start, FIRST step:

Pop trunk, pop off trim cover marked Fuel Reset (drivers side rear, below third row seatbelt), find big button underneath....press and hold for a few seconds

Then try starting the truck

May be good advice it the symptoms call for it.

But in this case the OP states "No electrical power anywhere."

So in this case if you reset the Fuel Reset and then try to start The expy still won't start due to no power anywhere.

What would be your next suggestion

 

[Adieu]

May be good advice it the symptoms call for it.

But in this case the OP states "No electrical power anywhere."

So in this case if you reset the Fuel Reset and then try to start The expy still won't start due to no power anywhere.

What would be your next suggestion

I'm just saying that AFTER replacing whatever the heck got diagnosed as blown or dead, if it still don't work, try that, and only THEN move on to buying more stuff to replace


Like: I replaced a battery, no dice... remembered seeing a weird switch under a panel in the back, Googled it, tried it, mission accomplished

If I towed it to a stealership... I'd be replacing half the trucks systems I'm sure

So fuze swapped? Try it. Something else swapped? Try it. Etc

 

[Bedrck47]

I'm just saying that AFTER replacing whatever the heck got diagnosed as blown or dead, if it still don't work, try that, and only THEN move on to buying more stuff to replace

Now you say AFTER earlier you said
BEFORE ALL THAT:

Pop trunk

Look on driver side rear trim panel (trunk area/behind third row)

Pry off the trim panel marked "Fuel Reset"

Press and hold switch inside for several seconds

Try starting the truck


Normally the Fuel Reset doesn't trip on its own. If it does then it needs to be replaced It normally takes some kind of a hit to cause it to trip.

As far as replacing parts to fix a problem that can get expensive.

The best way is to troubleshoot the problem, look at the symptoms and determine a path to follow.

If there is no power anywhere then it useless to reset switches.

If the engine doesn't crank (turn) over then its useless to reset switches.

And just because you got lucky and the reset solved your problem doesn't mean that it will solve others problems.

In all the time I have spent on this forum and in all my years being around vehicles, I have only had a few times that the fuel reset solved a problem But have had way many times the problem has been blown fuses, bad starters or alternators, dead batteries.

What solves problems for one person doesn't mean that it will solve problems for everyone else.

Take the time and get involved in this forum and you will quickly see and understand what goes on.

Looking at how you came to reset the fuel shutoff you got lucky You replaced the battery WHY? you had to google for information about the switch, WHY?
You also mention swap fuses or something else, WHY swap parts.

Troubleshot the problem find the bad part and replace it. Don't just swap or replace parts with the hope that it is the problem. Prove its the problem.

Again your reply to check the fuel shut off may be good advice and if it were me I would have most likely check fuel pressure first before resetting the switch.

That would have proved the electrical circuit, switch and the fuel pump were both good. Yes it would have taken longer but would also prove out the system.

Had you just reset the switch and the expy didn't start then what would you have done. SWAP PARTS or replace with new parts or troubleshoot the problem to find the bad part.

 

[stamp11127]

Adieu, we try to help members diagnose their problems so that they save money and possibly learn a few new things in the process instead of tossing parts at a problem. Condeming the part before replacement is cheaper in the long run.

And where did the op go?

 

[gixer2000]

Adieu, we try to help members diagnose their problems so that they save money and possibly learn a few new things in the process instead of tossing parts at a problem. Condeming the part before replacement is cheaper in the long run.

I think what he's saying is that since the vehicle "nearly started" he's thinking maybe that switch somehow tripped causing a no fuel situation. I would recommend charging the battery because the relays you had chattering were because of low voltage to the relay coil. Charge it up and it'll start!

 

[Adieu]

Adieu, we try to help members diagnose their problems so that they save money and possibly learn a few new things in the process instead of tossing parts at a problem. Condeming the part before replacement is cheaper in the long run.

And where did the op go?

Uh yeah that's why I mentioned the easily accessible button that HAS BEEN KNOW to get tripped somehow when working on the truck......


Cuz it costs nothing but 30 seconds to try.


It's like....press ESC a few times, and failing that CTRL ALT DEL before you start opening up your computer case or reinstalling windows. MIGHT work.

 

[stamp11127]

All of us understand what he is saying. Bedrck47 and I disagree with his suggestion. The inertia switch has nothing to do with the starter circuit - period. You can trip the inertia switch but still crank the engine, it just won't start due to lack of fuel.

His engine isn't cranking. In this generation Expy it can be caused by:
1) weak battery - undercharged
2) sulfated battery - reduces the cranking amps available
3) poor or open connections
4) high resistance in the large cables which drops the voltage to the starter
5) worn out starter - armature locks to the windings when energized
6) internal short in starter windings - changes magnetic field strength

Newer vehicles that utilize a body control module(bcm) it will be a different story. His Expy does not use a multiplexed bcm.

Voltage drop testing on the load side of the starter circuit will tell him if the problem is on that side of the circuit or elsewhere.

 

[Bedrck47]

Uh yeah that's why I mentioned the easily accessible button that HAS BEEN KNOW to get tripped somehow when working on the truck......


Cuz it costs nothing but 30 seconds to try.


It's like....press ESC a few times, and failing that CTRL ALT DEL before you start opening up your computer case or reinstalling windows. MIGHT work.

I love the logic behind that statement

Wouldn't it be so simple that when our expy's break down all we had to do was ,

"press ESC a few times, and failing that CTRL ALT DEL before you start"

 

[stamp11127]

Hell no!
I can see it now, driving down the road, something goes out of parameters and the vehicle just stops. Hook up your code reader and all you get is the BSOD.

 

[Habbibie]

This is the weirdest issue I've ever heard of, bleed brakes and car won't start...WTF?!?!?!

 

[jeff kushner]

I had my Gen 3 ('03 EB Expy) die on me when my baby and I were up in PA on a SUNDAY! It ran fine up & we stopped at a store, came out and no start...only a buzzing noise from the passenger side kick panel.

I would suggest that you remove the cover, open the fuse box and have someone feel as you attempt to start.

We got a tow to Pep Boys (cost 21 bucks to tow) then the guy there recognized the issue! We were very lucky. He replaced a 3 dollar relay and all was well!

I hope that this somehow helps....need less to say, I stocked up on those relays after that. I just checked my fleabay history and the relay was FORD OEM FUSE RELAY FOAB-14B192-AA

There are several of these in there and any one of them may cause a "no start". I'm sure there is an easy way to check them since the have a schematic printed on the side of them.

jeff

 

[1955moose]

You guys are jumping all over the map here. Stamp and Bedrck are right on track. You start with a strong battery. If need be, put a heavy duty charger or jumper vehicle to battery, it should run. I've drained batteries on my Lincolns all the time, doing electrical or something else. I have had vehicles that had batteries that couldn't be jumped, had to replace. As we all state, kiss, keep it simple stupid! If all his symptoms are electrical, you don't mess with fuel, or suspension. If you went to your doctor for a wet cough, he wouldn't examine your feet! 4 years is getting towards cutoff time to replace battery. If you want to do it the free way, use the battery out of another vehicle that runs, as long as terminals are same.


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