Feels like its misfiring but no codes

[randym]

Hey all, new member here. Recently purchased a 2005 Expedition Eddie Bauer edition with 123K miles on the clock. I knew it needed a tune-up, so I put new Motorcraft plugs in. Recently, I've been pulling misfire codes so I changed the COPs with new Motorcraft ones. Codes cleared, but I am still experiencing rough idle and rough ride at around 1500 RPMs. Feels like its still misfiring. So I cleaned out the MAF, changed the fuel filter and ran some Seafoam through the gas. I am stumped as to what else could be causing the rough idle and ride. So far, no codes exist so I don't even know where to start. Any ideas?

BTW, before I posted this, I spent all last week, searching and reading through this and other forums. I am sure someone will simply tell me to search the forum. But I cant seem to figure out what else is wrong and searching has got me frustrated. Please someone help!

 

[Skauber]

Have you considered the transmission? It might be a shudder from the transmission, and not actually a misfire.

 

[46L281GT]

I have the same issue. seems like it isn't the transmission for me. also have a rough idle at times. i think it is a COP for me

 

[onlyexilove]

Some of the same issues here as well. I put up a thread on here yesterday to see if anyone could offer some insight on a rough idle with misfire code and no answers back yet. I popped the famous P0304 (cylinder #4 misfire) and have since swapped plugs, cops, pcv valve assy, all 4 O2 sensors, cleaned the MAF and moved around some of the injectors. One big thing that I know from messing with my 1998 4.6 setup is that the IAC tends to get gunked up over time and cause the idle to not be as good. I would try to maybe check the IAC and also possibly run some of the seafoam through the vacuum tube on the brake booster. Hopefully those few things will be able to help.

 

[steelnewfie]

Try cleaning the threads where the plugs go in; remove any excess carbon. I think it's causing my spark to arc and then subsequent intermittent random misfires.

 

[black 4x4]

I was just gonna make a thread about the same exact issue. Just replaced the plugs and truck runs like it has a blown engine.
There are definitely more than one cylinder miss firing. And of course #8 coil and plug had to seize. Cool and the boot came out in pieces. Used seven of the eight old coils back but looks like I'm gonna have to order new coils because of the miss fire.

Also I don't think ford 5.4 engines likes the Bosch double platinum plugs. I change the plugs on my 2001 expy and it developed this ticking noise from the left bank (I replaced the plugs and the coils at the same time on the expy) and after changing the plugs my 2004 navigator devoloped the exact same ticking noise from the left bank.
Might have to try single platinum or the iridium plugs to see if there is a difference.

Anywho...more work is ahead.



And Wylie this? Can you believe this? #8 plug.

 

[1955moose]

You don't need new coils, just the boots, wires, and clean where they attach to plugs, I like putting dielectric grease where caps meet plugs. The biggest issue is bad connection between coils and plugs. Of you suspect a bad coil theirs a website that shows you how to test them to see if their sparking. You'll need an hei type spark tester and a negative lead from battery jumper cable. You know in the old days before coil on plug. I only had 3 bad coils on almost 400 cars and motorcycles I've worked on. Usually it was a pick-up coil, or ignition module. Can't tell you how many customers used to bring me their so called bad coils. I'd test them with a simple volt/ohm meter, send them back with how to test other parts. They would thank me, time and again. Remember guys, like my first auto shop teacher taught me, I'm making you guys mechanics, not parts changers! Read how to test these secondary ignition parts. Your all smarter on the computer than us old guys will ever be!


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[1955moose]

That's one nasty looking spark plug! Worse set I ever saw was on my brother in laws Nissan patrol 4x4. In those days it was points/ condenser ignition. You never went more than 15 k between tune ups. He went like 35 k their was no spark plugs left. Points were literally welded together from heat/wear. Amazingly it still ran !


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[black 4x4]

1955moose I definitely see your point but at 153k miles I'd rather put on new coils. Which I should've done in the first place.
And lol @ my autocorrect...I just noticed that it changed my WTF in to Wylie.

By the way I don't have any codes either. Why wouldn't it throw any codes or have the check engine light on when truck feels like it's idling with 5 out of 8 cylinders?

 

[1955moose]

Sometimes Ford computers don't always throw codes, actually all car computers. It depends on a lot of things going on between computer and sensors. Maybe Stamp or Bedrck, could explain in more detail. Electrical has never been my strong suit when I used to wrench, more of a mechanical kind of guy. I had a Lincoln Mark 7 that had a functioning battery light on dash, but when alternators went bad, it never tripped the light. Limped it home on a totally dead battery once.


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[steelnewfie]

I was getting the same stutter around 1600RPM; it's not the TC. Like a rumble strip. Was lucky enough to throw a code and then cleaned the threads and reseated the plug on that misfiring cylinder. Now I have full power, steady at 1600 but I get a sharp, momentary drop around 3000 under medium-hard acceleration and the idle is still rough.

Previously I was able to get it to misfire almost every time by going on a slight uphill around 55mph; torque converter locked and lugging about as low as you can get it without shifting. This produces about the leanest burn these engines are capable of (from what I've read).

I've replaced five of the eight coils and all eight plugs. Other three coil packs arrive on Tuesday. Motorcraft plugs and coils; I would not bother with anything else due to these finicky 3v's. Warning they retail for a hundred bucks a coil.

Once I get the three last coils on, if it is still misfiriing I may drive it straight into Halifax Harbour. See how it does submerged.

Cancelled a 3000Km Xmas road trip because of my 'preventative' plug change...

Let you know how I make out.

 

[1955moose]

Like I've replied before on other threads, you need to check for an intake leak somewhere under the hood. Spray all vaccum hoses, intake manifold, basicly anywhere in the intake stream. You can use carb clean, wd40, or if your carefull apropane torch not lit , done outdoors to check leaks. Just for ha ha's change fuel and air filter if you haven't already, check fuel pump pressure at Shrader valve. Also clean your maf sensor with a maf sensor cleaner. These SUVs aren't amphicars, and at over 5,000 lbs, don't see it floating too well in the river. Besides selling one of these in good shape is tough enough. Can you imagine with ad saying minor water damage! You'll get it figured out, were all rooting for you!keep us posted when you get back, The Chrismoose!


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[steelnewfie]

Haha... Thanks moose.

I've literally read every thread in the second gen section. Haven't found one outlining where the major vacuum hoses are on the 3V; lots of info on first gen trucks though.

Does anyone have a link to something which could show me where all the vacuum hoses are? I realize the second gen 3V's do NOT suffer from the PCV elbow problem that plagued the earlier tritons.

I am currently in the process of obtaining a shop manual.

I did try the old school smoking a cigarette and blowing into engine bay to look for disruptions but there was too much ambient wind, if that is the proper term.

Thanks!

 

[steelnewfie]

MAF clean is the next thing on my list after replacing the last three CP's and verifying no vacuum leaks. Thanks again.

 

[black 4x4]

So my new accel cop arrived earlier today and because of the ticking noise I also went and bought a new set of Ac Delco single platinum rapid fire spark plugs. I replaced them all and the truck runs great. Weeeellll...except now when it got warm idle dropped around 500 rpm and check engine light came on. I didn't get the check the code yet but my guess is it's the egr valve.

So far I replaced all the cop and the plugs, cleaned the MAF, cleaned the throttle body and the flaps, replaced the idle air control valve and the new air filter. I checked all the vacuum lines (the ones I can see) and they are all good. I'm hoping tomorrow codes will say some other issue besides the egr valve because it's is a pain in the ass to replace.

I know there are instructions for it but I couldn't find anything cleaning the egr valve without taking it apart.

I don't know about the expeditions but the take out the egr valve I have to remove the entire air intake. On the other hand they put the idle air control valve right in front. Took about 10 seconds to replace.

My new cops.

 

[ebexpedition18]

If its a soft miss, minor shudder, clean your injectors. Also check resistance across all injectors (pull the leads, and check resistance across the injector) I don't recall spec, but check them all if ones not in line.. then.. look at that one.

 

[black 4x4]

No miss, just a low idle. Once I get going truck runs smooth as butter.

 

[1955moose]

So let me get this straight. The ticking sound was from a spark plug? Sounds like it must have been one of the coils arcing. Wow, I thought I had bad luck with simple mechanical woes! Is the second generation egr that tight in the back? My first gen 5.4 looks like you can remove it. Before you remove it, why not do all the basic tests first. 1. Make sure vacuum from hose going up to it. 2. Add vacuum to egr, see if it opens, and holds vacuum. 3. Motor should stumble and die, or want to with vacuum applied. If these 3 three tests pass, then maybe you've got some carbon or gunk, making the pintle inside the egr stick. You might have problem with egr solenoid, or dpfe. Let us know, your almost there.


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[black 4x4]

I'll check all that. And here is a video of egr valve location and the removal from a navigator 4 valve engine. You can skip to parts of it and stuff.

http://youtu.be/iJiOTUqe060

 

[1955moose]

That sucks. They don't make anything easy on these SUVs. Well let's hope it doesn't come to that.


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