I'm new to this forum

[USMCBuckWild]

Not trying to hijack your thread OP. Welcome aboard.

I usually buy my pistol ammo a case at a time. When I go to the range I'll shoot 2-3 hundred pistol rounds. I've gotten pretty accurate at 7 yards. Now I'm working on 15 yards. I'd love to do one of those combat ranges.

I usually buy ammo 2-3k at a time. Range trips for me always end up in the 1k rounds or more expenditures. 3-gun and Combat matches are ALOT of fun. Can be very hard on the body though depending on load out and match requirements (mag carriers/pouches, body armor, plates, etc.). That's typically on your higher end match, most basic matches you 'run what you brung' and just there to have fun and hone skills. I'll never be able to compete at any serious level again, so now its just retaining skill.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Not trying to hijack your thread OP. Welcome aboard.


I usually buy ammo 2-3k at a time. Range trips for me always end up in the 1k rounds or more expenditures. 3-gun and Combat matches are ALOT of fun. Can be very hard on the body though depending on load out and match requirements (mag carriers/pouches, body armor, plates, etc.). That's typically on your higher end match, most basic matches you 'run what you brung' and just there to have fun and hone skills. I'll never be able to compete at any serious level again, so now its just retaining skill.

I hear you. At 59 I just want to fine tune my skills and get better at point and click.

 

[chuck s]

Push your target out to 25 yards. All your errors will be properly magnified. Same sight picture with a handgun as the sights and bore are very close. Take the first acceptable sight picture. Doesn't have to be exact, the 0 zone is 8 or 9 inches diameter. Cloverleaf group only means you're not shooting fast enough.

If you've not taken a professional 3-day training course in several years and can't get to Gunsite see if Jeff Gonzales or Scott Reitz is in your area. A 3-day course can burn thru 2000 rounds. Both Jeff and Scott will push you well beyond your comfort zone. Uncle Scotty had us shooting weak hand/one hand and non-dominant eye two summers ago. He taped over the lens on our dominate eye glasses. Not only non-dominant but one-eyed. He'll make you a believer in ambidextrous M1911 frame safeties as well.

My shipping department just takes the ammo crates out to my car when it comes...

Expedition content: The ammo fits in the truck.

-- Chuck

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Push your target out to 25 yards. All your errors will be properly magnified. Same sight picture with a handgun as the sights and bore are very close. Take the first acceptable sight picture. Doesn't have to be exact, the 0 zone is 8 or 9 inches diameter. Cloverleaf group only means you're not shooting fast enough.

If you've not taken a professional 3-day training course in several years and can't get to Gunsite see if Jeff Gonzales or Scott Reitz is in your area. A 3-day course can burn thru 2000 rounds. Both Jeff and Scott will push you well beyond your comfort zone. Uncle Scotty had us shooting weak hand/one hand and non-dominant eye two summers ago. He taped over the lens on our dominate eye glasses. Not only non-dominant but one-eyed. He'll make you a believer in ambidextrous M1911 frame safeties as well.

My shipping department just takes the ammo crates out to my car when it comes...

Expedition content: The ammo fits in the truck.

-- Chuck

I will eventually go to 25 yards but I want to get my 15 yd groups like my 7 yd groups, then I'll move on to a longer distance. I've never taken a course, I'd like to someday. I shoot left and right handed and one handed and well as two handed.

 

[Rigpig]

Not trying to hijack your thread OP. Welcome aboard.




I usually buy ammo 2-3k at a time. Range trips for me always end up in the 1k rounds or more expenditures. 3-gun and Combat matches are ALOT of fun. Can be very hard on the body though depending on load out and match requirements (mag carriers/pouches, body armor, plates, etc.). That's typically on your higher end match, most basic matches you 'run what you brung' and just there to have fun and hone skills. I'll never be able to compete at any serious level again, so now its just retaining skill.

I'm a 3-gunner as well. Been competitively shooting for 5 years or so. Cool that there's some of us on these boards!

ETA: about the only reason I had in mind to buy an Expedition in the first place was to get all my gear to the range, rain or shine.

 

[chuck s]

A professional training course will shock you with what you don't know and the bad habits you've adopted on your own. Assuming you're referring to defensive shooting the groups are unimportant. What's important is how fast you can put a round (or better two) center of mass. That's a 9" diameter area. Out of the holster. There are no second prizes. Nor are there handicap tiers as in the gun games. There's a reason the M1911s run in their own group -- to make the game "fair."

Most guys, though, would just rather pretend and are satisfied with afternoon "courses" or the internet.

-- Chuck

 

[Rigpig]

There's a reason the M1911s run in their own group -- to make the game "fair."

-- Chuck

Fair to the 1911 shooters, since they lack capacity...

 

[bobmbx]

A professional training course will shock you with what you don't know and the bad habits you've adopted on your own. Assuming you're referring to defensive shooting the groups are unimportant. What's important is how fast you can put a round (or better two) center of mass. That's a 9" diameter area. Out of the holster. There are no second prizes. Nor are there handicap tiers as in the gun games. There's a reason the M1911s run in their own group -- to make the game "fair."

Most guys, though, would just rather pretend and are satisfied with afternoon "courses" or the internet.

-- Chuck

This. There is a world of difference between competition shooting and defensive shooting. You don't get points for a tight group on a bad guy. Odds are that merely pulling the trigger on your weapon can be enough to upset their gameplan and cause them to skeedaddle. And thats the whole point of defensive shooting.

 

[USMCBuckWild]

I'm a 3-gunner as well. Been competitively shooting for 5 years or so. Cool that there's some of us on these boards!

ETA: about the only reason I had in mind to buy an Expedition in the first place was to get all my gear to the range, rain or shine.

Looks like we need a shooters sub-forum here!

FYI: it is feasible to lay in the back of the Expedition with the seats folded down and shoot out the back with the gate open. Contrary to popular belief, even a 22.5" barreled AR-10 with a massive brake and hot match ammo won't blow out windows. I definately have a piece of 3/4" plywood under the barrel though.

 

[USMCBuckWild]

A professional training course will shock you with what you don't know and the bad habits you've adopted on your own. Assuming you're referring to defensive shooting the groups are unimportant. What's important is how fast you can put a round (or better two) center of mass. That's a 9" diameter area. Out of the holster. There are no second prizes. Nor are there handicap tiers as in the gun games. There's a reason the M1911s run in their own group -- to make the game "fair."

Most guys, though, would just rather pretend and are satisfied with afternoon "courses" or the internet.

-- Chuck

There is so much truth here. Train, train, train. Practice drawing and dry-firing at a bare minimum 2 hours a week with your carry weapon. Sudden attacks, surprise, fear and massive adrenaline rush degrades fine motor skills and the thought process. "Muscle memory" and instinctual reaction is what will save your life. Shooting under pressure (3-gun matches, courses, etc.) especially with other shooters and distractions around you helps with maintaining discipline and concentration under hard circumstances.

I could talk for hours about shooting. Only thing I don't like about it is the $$$$$ involved.

Oh, and 1911/2011 is a topic that will require a whole discussion thread of its own.

 

[USMCBuckWild]

Fair to the 1911 shooters, since they lack capacity...

What, you don't have a double stack 1911? Amateurs around here, I swear!

 

[Rigpig]

What, you don't have a double stack 1911? Amateurs around here, I swear!

That'd be a 2011, and I have several, just none in .45. I was poking fun at CDP, and IDPA shooters in general

 

[USMCBuckWild]

That'd be a 2011, and I have several, just none in .45. I was poking fun at CDP, and IDPA shooters in general

Pre-dating the 2011 there was 2 different manufacturers of a double-stack 1911 in .45 IIRC the first was in early 1970s initially designed for LEO use.

 

[Rigpig]

Pre-dating the 2011 there was 2 different manufacturers of a double-stack 1911 in .45 IIRC the first was in early 1970s initially designed for LEO use.

Yes, but my response was to chuck_s who posted that 1911s have their own class in competition, to make the game "fair", as if the 1911 is some super weapon. CDP in IDPA and Single Stack in USPSA exist to make the game fair...to 1911 shooters...shooting a single stack...because of their low capacity...

 

[USMCBuckWild]

Yes, but my response was to chuck_s who posted that 1911s have their own class in competition, to make the game "fair", as if the 1911 is some super weapon. CDP in IDPA and Single Stack in USPSA exist to make the game fair...to 1911 shooters...shooting a single stack...because of their low capacity...

Well now don't i feel dumb. Sorry bro.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Maybe we need a gun/shooters sub-forum.

 

[chuck s]

Since we've managed to complete change this thread :

The only documented street gun fight data comes from law enforcement sources and the need to change magazines is negligible even when using a "proper" .45ACP M1911. Two (2) or three (3) rounds max. A spare magazine remains prudent as the magazine is the weak point in any auto pistol. I'm comfortable with nine (9) rounds of 230g JHP in the pistol and another 8 on the belt.

The M1911 trigger remains the gold standard. Gun games with dozens of targets remain games. 0200 in a dark parking lot is unlikely to have that.

Last thing ya want to do is pull the trigger. It will change your life regardless of need or righteousness.

-- Chuck

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Since we've managed to complete change this thread :

Last thing ya want to do is pull the trigger. It will change your life regardless of need or righteousness.

-- Chuck

I completely agree with that statement.

 

[USMCBuckWild]

Since we've managed to complete change this thread :

The only documented street gun fight data comes from law enforcement sources and the need to change magazines is negligible even when using a "proper" .45ACP M1911. Two (2) or three (3) rounds max. A spare magazine remains prudent as the magazine is the weak point in any auto pistol. I'm comfortable with nine (9) rounds of 230g JHP in the pistol and another 8 on the belt.

The M1911 trigger remains the gold standard. Gun games with dozens of targets remain games. 0200 in a dark parking lot is unlikely to have that.

Last thing ya want to do is pull the trigger. It will change your life regardless of need or righteousness.

-- Chuck

The biggest problem is lack of appropriate training. Realistically, how often do LEO actually train in a real world scenario? I know as a Marine we are required to "qualify" with our primary weapon (and pistol if you rate one) 1 time per year. Due to budget cuts and financial mismanagement well above my pay grade; once a year doesn't always happen.

Do grunts and ground support troops still train with their weapon more often than that? Absolutely! But nothing, no matter how realistic, will ever compare to live fire exercises. Especially high stress, realistic scenarios with the noises, dark hallways/alleys and muzzle flashes in the darkness. Most crime where one is required to defend themselves is conducted via surprise. Thinking and acting under a surprise attack or ambush is brutally difficult. Shooting under these conditions is as
difficult as it gets. Yet the vast majority of people who carry a firearm don't train to that capacity.

Pulling the trigger, especially in a defensive situation, is an enormous responsibility. There are 2nd, 3rd, 4th order affects that 95% of shooters don't even contemplate let alone be prepared for. The initial investigation itself is enough to overwhelm even the best prepared individual, and it can spiral from there.