Is it normal A/C performance ???

[Mubarakma]

Hello everyone our actual summer started here currently weather temperature on peak hours will reach 122+ F for almost June, July and August my car is 2010 Limited Black on black yesterday I checked A/C system at local garage for any leak or compressor issue but nothing found everything working as required and the guy can't identified any problem but I feel it's not performing well I feel that there is problem and it's not normal yes it's true blowing air is superior no doubt but it's not that cool when I compared it with other car I have which is Lincoln T.C 2000 not serviced since past four years but that car having a superior A/C system even on sever temperature condition 122+ F you can get cooled air 34 F coming out from duct but in the expedition you can see 44 F at night only with almost everything new in A/C system circuit .
Now I'm planning to add extra fan that working with A/C which may help solving this problem.
Thank you in advanced

 

[RogerD1959]

The rule of thumb regarding A/C. It should cool between 35 and 40 deg. F below ambient outside temp. So if its summer in Phoenix AZ and the temp is 110 Deg. F, the vehicle should be blowing air at around 60 to 75 Deg. F. Also the reason I think your Lincoln A/C works better it is using the old R-12 Freon. Sad to say, the new stuff does not bleed heat as well as the old stuff. But at least we are saving the Ozone layer somewhat. Also, A/C does not work as well in low humidity where there is little moisture in the air.

 

[RogerD1959]

OMG, I just saw where you live! I would say if you get a vent temp 25 deg. F below ambient you are doing well.

 

[stamp11127]

You have the worse case scenario - hot climate and black on black vehicle. That combination is a heat magnet. To get an accurate performance condition you need to know the systems static pressure, the low and high side pressures, and ambient temperature when you take the readings.

Back to the garage, hook up the gauges again in the shade and post pic of the gauge readings with the engine running. Also post the ambient temp.
For the static temp the system needs to have been off for around 30 minutes so that the system will equalize pressure on both sides.

The condenser and radiator need to be clear of any obstructions, fan clutch & fans need to be operational.

The cabin filter if used, needs to be clean also.

R12 was eliminated from auto production in 1993, r134a was implemented the next year. Your TC should also be r134a.

 

[cmiles97]

Are you using max ac or recirculated mode? Rather than cooling 122F air all the time, the air temp being returned to the system will steadily drop, assuming no windows or sunroof open.

Getting 78F drop is impressive.

I'd say it's fine. The comparison with the older car doesn't work as it may simply have a larger AC capacity because they didn't design cars to be as energy efficient as possible back then. It would be like 2 of the same size condos, one has a 3 ton AC unit the other a 5 ton. The 3 Ton will be the most efficient as it will meet load 85% of the time. The 5 ton will use more power during those lower load times but work best the 15% of the time when the OA temp is above 90F. The higher the OA temp goes the 3 ton will not keep it as cool. If 3 tons works 85% of the time, it'll be chosen for max energy efficiency.

I'm sure you got the basics down, if not I find this guy informative:

 

[jeff kushner]

The condenser and radiator need to be clear of any obstructions

Especially the Condenser.....they are nearly always filled with bugs, sand(which you have a fair bit of) and other debris and they are sized per specific use so keeping it at full capability is paramount. Check and you'll prob see it blocked.....high pressure hose works well, specialized solutions work better.....have a little fun....run the AC on full for 10 minutes, check temps...now watch the temps as someone pours a pitcher of water over the condenser coil.....

LOL....that's why you need to keep it clean so it can shed the highest amount of latent heat possible!

jeff

 

[cmiles97]

Here is your solution for those hottest days of the year.



Here's an old version of a hybrid

 

[cmiles97]

I also found this chart for typical R134A car performance. It looks like your is doing better than the chart. From this site:
https://mdhmotors.com/ac-system-performance-testing-part-1/

 

[Mubarakma]

The rule of thumb regarding A/C. It should cool between 35 and 40 deg. F below ambient outside temp. So if its summer in Phoenix AZ and the temp is 110 Deg. F, the vehicle should be blowing air at around 60 to 75 Deg. F. Also the reason I think your Lincoln A/C works better it is using the old R-12 Freon. Sad to say, the new stuff does not bleed heat as well as the old stuff. But at least we are saving the Ozone layer somewhat. Also, A/C does not work as well in low humidity where there is little moisture in the air.

Thanks a lot but where I live temperature far more just today 46 C "114.8 degrees Fahrenheit"
A/C I believe I have a problem with A/C system

 

[Mubarakma]

You have the worse case scenario - hot climate and black on black vehicle. That combination is a heat magnet. To get an accurate performance condition you need to know the systems static pressure, the low and high side pressures, and ambient temperature when you take the readings.

Back to the garage, hook up the gauges again in the shade and post pic of the gauge readings with the engine running. Also post the ambient temp.
For the static temp the system needs to have been off for around 30 minutes so that the system will equalize pressure on both sides.

The condenser and radiator need to be clear of any obstructions, fan clutch & fans need to be operational.

The cabin filter if used, needs to be clean also.

R12 was eliminated from auto production in 1993, r134a was implemented the next year. Your TC should also be r134a.

Thank you very much just today I made a test with my cousin Explorer 2008 Limited also it's black on black there was really a huge different between his car and mine I will dig more with one guy his car is GCC spec maybe my car designed for Canada spec because of that any way I will not conclude anything right now but next step is cleaning the radiator and change the coolant after that I will compare it with Expedition with GCC spec
There is one more point is it possible that blind door actuator will create such thing .
I will first clean the radiator then I will see what is next .
Expedition in the shade and open area

atmospheric temp reading on Expedition

Explorer in the shade and open area also it's black on black

atmospheric temperate reading at explorer

Both cars was at same location and at same time while taking the readings
Thank you again .

 

[Mubarakma]

Are you using max ac or recirculated mode? Rather than cooling 122F air all the time, the air temp being returned to the system will steadily drop, assuming no windows or sunroof open.

Getting 78F drop is impressive.

I'd say it's fine. The comparison with the older car doesn't work as it may simply have a larger AC capacity because they didn't design cars to be as energy efficient as possible back then. It would be like 2 of the same size condos, one has a 3 ton AC unit the other a 5 ton. The 3 Ton will be the most efficient as it will meet load 85% of the time. The 5 ton will use more power during those lower load times but work best the 15% of the time when the OA temp is above 90F. The higher the OA temp goes the 3 ton will not keep it as cool. If 3 tons works 85% of the time, it'll be chosen for max energy efficiency.

I'm sure you got the basics down, if not I find this guy informative:

Thank you very much but for me I beleive that my car A/C is not normal + summer just start I will compare it with Expedition sold locally here by Ford dealer that have GCC country spec almost I doubt the radiator and condenser but till now not sure .
Thank you very much

 

[Mubarakma]

Especially the Condenser.....they are nearly always filled with bugs, sand(which you have a fair bit of) and other debris and they are sized per specific use so keeping it at full capability is paramount. Check and you'll prob see it blocked.....high pressure hose works well, specialized solutions work better.....have a little fun....run the AC on full for 10 minutes, check temps...now watch the temps as someone pours a pitcher of water over the condenser coil.....

LOL....that's why you need to keep it clean so it can shed the highest amount of latent heat possible!

jeff

Thank you very much
I consider what you advice
Will start working on it tomorrow
Regards.

 

[Mubarakma]

Here is your solution for those hottest days of the year.

View attachment 30540

Here's an old version of a hybrid

View attachment 30541

It's the best solution for our desert weather
Thanks

 

[Mubarakma]

I also found this chart for typical R134A car performance. It looks like your is doing better than the chart. From this site:
https://mdhmotors.com/ac-system-performance-testing-part-1/

View attachment 30542

Thank you
Compare to the chart yes you are right but compare to other cars sorry to say no I'm really appreciate what you post
Thank you again

 

[max78]

It was 110°f (43c) where I live yesterday and I have a very similar situation.

When I purchased the expedition I was expecting the AC performance to blow my 20 year old Honda out of the water. . . . Shocker, it does not. . .

Looking at the 2 vehicles there are several differences that I would bet make a rather big difference in performance.

First my Honda has 2 electric fans that kick on high as soon as you turn on the AC. The interior of the Honda is MUCH smaller with a lot less ducting to get the air where it needs to go. It has no rear AC.

The Expedition has a electronically operated viscous fan clutch, it will only ever spin as fast as the motor turns it, and my expedition idles close to 500rpm in gear. The PCM will only ever command 100% lockup under certain conditions, those conditions are rather extreme in my opinion and if you do manage to get there you might have other issues. Coolant temp: >260°F, AC high pressure: >240psi, trans temp: >300°F, all other conditions will command less than 100% fan speed. So removing the heat from the condenser might not be as efficient as an electric fan setup. But once you start moving and get a little RPM they generally work better. I'm sure mine needs to be replaced and I might add aux fans to help cool the AC in the summer months, but we only get to around 117°f (47c) a few weeks a year out where we live.

The explorer your friend has is equipped with electric fans, with both vehicles idling AC on how loud is the explorer compared to the expedition fan noise wise. I never really did like mechanical fans because at a dead idle factory electric fans generally have superior cooling ability. However as soon as you get a little RPM into the motor the mechanical fan will outperform an electric every time. If you cant get the temps to drop any lower while traveling at a consistent pace then you might have other issues.

If there is no change with a constant drive there are several issues that could be the cause. There are various barriers and shrouds to direct the most amount of air across the condenser and radiator, if those have been removed or are missing your cooling performance could suffer.

Other issues that might have already bee mentioned.
*Weak AC Compressor
*Blend Doors
*Faulty Thermostatic Expansion valve (TXV)
*Low refrigerant
*Clogged Condenser
*Poor airflow across the condenser
*failing Cooling fan not drawing enough air across the condenser.


The shop who looked at your truck should be able to tell if you were low on refrigerant and if the TXV or compressor are good from the pressure differential.

I wonder what other people are getting for vent temps in similar climates.

 

[JExpedition07]

2010 Expedition will have dual electric fans no clutch. Only 07-09’ Expeditions have clutched fans. I’ve noticed no difference in cooling performance between the two.

 

[powerboatr]

i always run the a/c in recirc mode to keep re-cooling the cabin air vice outside air.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

Thank you very much just today I made a test with my cousin Explorer 2008 Limited also it's black on black there was really a huge different between his car and mine I will dig more with one guy his car is GCC spec maybe my car designed for Canada spec because of that any way I will not conclude anything right now but next step is cleaning the radiator and change the coolant after that I will compare it with Expedition with GCC spec
There is one more point is it possible that blind door actuator will create such thing .
I will first clean the radiator then I will see what is next .

My AC was performing pretty poorly when I bought my truck in 2015. My AC guy checked everything and everything was within spec, including the coolant and the thermostat. Nonetheless, I changed the coolant as it was original and changed the tstat while I was in there (replaced with a Stant SuperStat rather than the Motorcraft as the replacement MC was super light and flimsy compared to the OEM). AC blows ice cold ever since. You may have no change whatsoever, but it's not going to hurt anything to do them.

Re the blend door actuator, you will hear it clicking if it's worn out.

 

[max78]

2010 Expedition will have dual electric fans no clutch. Only 07-09’ Expeditions have clutched fans. I’ve noticed no difference in cooling performance between the two.

Well there goes that theory. . . lol, way to ruin my day!

Now I'm going to see about picking up a set from the junkyard to put on my junk. Thanks for the insight!

 

[stamp11127]

The high side pressure is a good indicator of how well the condenser is condensing the refrigerant. When there are issues the high side pressure can get extremely high.

One of our students forgot to turn on the condenser fan on the trainer he was using. The high side pressure was 450+, low side was climbing and hit 60+ when I shut it down. Needless to say it wasn't cooling very well.

Another thing to check is the drain. If it is clogged the evap will be covered in water and not cool well.