just how far can you go after zero miles to empty

[mossback]

Thanks boss.

 

[IIGood]

In response to the original question: I don't wanna find out. LOL.

I haven't let mine go too far below the quarter tank mark not because of the fuel pump "myth" but just because I don't want to spend that much on a fill-up. LOL. Even though it all ends up evening out.

Also, at least for me, the quarter tank mark is about 20 gallons. With the fuel rewards card I have, it limits me to 20 gallons at a time to get the XX cents off per gallon. I like to fill the tank back up to the full mark so when I know I've got rewards available, I definitely don't go below 1/4 tank.

On my Mustang, I let that go until the low fuel light comes on. At that point I've got about 2 gallons left in the tank out of a 15.7 gallon tank.

 

[jeff kushner]

That's funny as heck....PB...."yes i was puckering when it was reading zero miles for close to 2 miles"

Closest I ever got was 9....and my stress level was completely out of proportion to the actual consequence of running out of gas. LOL

At least now, I'll have reason for hope!

jeff

 

[coupe11]

Not sure about the Expedition and hope to never find out, but....my 1990 F150 4WD specifically mentioned in the owner's manual NOT to let a tank go dry as it could damage the fuel pump (2 tanks in that truck).

And, I don't like to let any of mine go much below 1/2 a tank. I may stop more for gas (filled up the Coupe Tuesday, the Expedition Thursday, meant to fill up the truck yesterday and forgot) that most people, but if I ever get caught in a big traffic jam due to accidents or weather, I'll have plenty of gas to burn while staying comfortable.

It also allows me to be more choosy about brand/price of gas I put in the tank if I have plenty in the tank already when I stop.

 

[mschiap]

I always understood you should keep fuel level from falling low because the excess fuel keeps the fuel pump cool.

 

[Hulkster]

You sound like you’re one of the motorists that have no problem running out of fuel, then expect a law enforcement officer to stop and take you for gas.

I have never understood people that drive a motor vehicle with an extremely low amount of fuel.

You sound like someone that doesn’t have a solution but rather just create more problems.

 

[LokiWolf]

I always understood you should keep fuel level from falling low because the excess fuel keeps the fuel pump cool.

Slightly an old wives tale. As long as it is still sucking fuel, no issues. Dry is bad.


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[762mm]

I don’t think being run low cause fuel pump problems. Besides random claims I’ve never seen any evidence of this.

It absolutely does. People who let their tanks below 1/4 regularly will have premature fuel pump failure.

I've driven my 99 Explorer for 16 years as a daily driver and replaced the fuel filter every 30k miles + never let the tank below 1/4. The truck did a lot of city stop and go driving too, so the pump definitely worked some overtime. The fuel pump was as strong as new when I sold it. The new owner still drives this truck daily.

On the other hand, I have someone in the family who also didn't believe this "never below 1/4 tank" story and would regularly let their truck get where the needle was on "E" before heading to a gas station. I helped them change the fuel pump in their newer GMC truck after a few short years of ownership. Now they are much more diligent about it and the new pump has lasted for many years (fuel filters were done on this truck too).

Talk to any mechanic worth their salt, they will confirm. Gasoline is both a coolant and a lubricant for electric fuel pumps (the more the pump is submerged, the cooler it runs). Also, the more fuel there is in the tank, the less strain there is on the pump because of how much the pump needs to work to create proper line pressure. In sum : less gas in tank = fuel pump runs harder and hotter.

This wasn't an issue in the days of mechanical fuel pumps, though.

 

[JExpedition07]

It absolutely does. People who let their tanks below 1/4 regularly will have premature fuel pump failure.

I've driven my 99 Explorer for 16 years as a daily driver and replaced the fuel filter every 30k miles + never let the tank below 1/4. The truck did a lot of city stop and go driving too, so the pump definitely worked some overtime. The fuel pump was as strong as new when I sold it. The new owner still drives this truck daily.

On the other hand, I have someone in the family who also didn't believe this "never below 1/4 tank" story and would regularly let their truck get where the needle was on "E" before heading to a gas station. I helped them change the fuel pump in their newer GMC truck after a few short years of ownership. Now they are much more diligent about it and the new pump has lasted for many years (fuel filters were done on this truck too).

Talk to any mechanic worth their salt, they will confirm. Gasoline is both a coolant and a lubricant for electric fuel pumps (the more the pump is submerged, the cooler it runs). Also, the more fuel there is in the tank, the less strain there is on the pump because of how much the pump needs to work to create proper line pressure. In sum : less gas in tank = fuel pump runs harder and hotter.

This wasn't an issue in the days of mechanical fuel pumps, though.

That doesn’t provide much evidence besides one case and an opinion....what about the cars with externally mounted electric fuel pumps? my dad always has run his trucks down to zero. He ran his ‘08 E-350 van for 220,000 miles always running the tank to empty. Fuel pump never failed. He sold the truck to a plumber who daily drives it today at 250,000 miles get this....on the original fuel pump

 

[ExplorerTom]

That doesn’t provide much evidence besides one case and an opinion....

Yep.

what about the cars with externally mounted electric fuel pumps?

This is really where the “the fuel pump is cooled by sitting in fuel” argument dies. There is nothing significantly different between the internal construction of the DC motor pump whether it’s mounted on the frame rail or in the tank. It’s the same basic pump.

 

[powerboatr]

That's funny as heck....PB...."yes i was puckering when it was reading zero miles for close to 2 miles"

Closest I ever got was 9....and my stress level was completely out of proportion to the actual consequence of running out of gas. LOL

At least now, I'll have reason for hope!

jeff

yep not something i routinely do, it just happened in relation to other events that were causal factors to getting me back home at 12 miles

i did one run the bus to where the LOW fuel light came on, road construction and exit ramps closed due to a huge pile up.. we hold 100 gallons, and when i did get to a station it took 96. gave me a pause. much longer and lots of folks would have needed road side help. best planning can never account for the unforseen on a sunday afternoon.

 

[762mm]

That doesn’t provide much evidence besides one case and an opinion....what about the cars with externally mounted electric fuel pumps? my dad always has run his trucks down to zero. He ran his ‘08 E-350 van for 220,000 miles always running the tank to empty. Fuel pump never failed. He sold the truck to a plumber who daily drives it today at 250,000 miles get this....on the original fuel pump

Surely, the design of externally-mounted electric fuel pumps would take this into consideration... as in a stronger motor (if it's mounted on top of the tank) and adequate thermal dissipation. If it's mounted at the bottom of the tank, then motor strength is a moot point since fuel will always flow into it and keep it primed. I never owned a vehicle with an external fuel pump, though... so can't comment beyond basic physics.

Anyway, you can do what you like with your truck. I'd rather put gas in mine before it goes below 1/4 of a tank. The fact that Motorcraft fuel pumps can take a beating (that is true, their design is very good) is no reason to abuse them as far as I'm concerned.

The good news is that, should the fuel pump ever give up the ghost, Ford will always remain more than happy to sell you a new one.

 

[Boostedbus]

I’ve always heard the same thing about not running around with 1/4 tank or less all the time because it’s not only hard on in tank fuel pumps but also kills the sending unit (old style float with rheostat). The gas lubricants the rheostat when float slides up and down. This has been told to me by my old Ford Tech long time friend also. Is there any truth to it ....???? I do know that my step daughters Audi just died and the shops diagnoses was bad fuel pump. I think the car has under 60,000 mi. on it and I know she is notorious for only putting $10 in at a time and not filling it up. I know! I know she’s driving around in an Audi and can’t afford to fill it up WTF!!! I can only lead the horse to water but I can’t make it drink.

 

[LokiWolf]

I have always run way below a quarter without issue. But that is cause I can always go to the station that is 3 blocks from my house to fill up. Not my preference, but can.

When I am road tripping I generally fill up before I get to a 1/4, because of those unforeseen circumstances.

I have had diesels, both Ford and VW, and plenty of gas cars.

All run close to E for probably 3/4 of their miles.

1993 Miata was turned into a Spec Miata with 203K on the odometer with original pump...actually most original parts!

2006 F250 140K when I sold it. Original Pump, still going strong and it is over 200K now. Now MANY of its parts were replaced or removed...but it was a 6.0 after all!

2006 Jetta TDI 165K when I sold it, original pump. I always ran this thing to E, always. I swear it would go forever on a teaspoon of diesel. Averaged 45MPG tuned with aggressive tires. Miss that car!!!

2013 Passat TDI, 96K, VW Buyback, original pump. I logged this car like crazy. It’s pump was routinely run hard because of tuning and other mods. Miss this one too. Got a ton of money in the buyback, but should have kept it.

In this thread we have mentioned 2 Chevys, and an Audi having issues with fuel pumps. Maybe theirs are weak? Maybe the fuel has nothing to do with it. Maybe they improved the design when they put the replacement in?

Do I think running below a 1/4 is an issue in modern Fords, NOPE. Do I think running dry is bad for a pump, heck yeah.

Bottom line. E(Zero to go) in the 15-17 Expy means you can probably do 30+ miles in average driving. Should you push it, no. Moving on.




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[JExpedition07]

Ran my 2007 Expedition EL Eddie Bauer down to Zero Miles to E to test this. Took a total of 29 gallons to fill. My owners manual states the fuel tank is 33.5 gallons. 33.5 gallons-29 gallons to fill up equals 4.5ish gallons of reserve for 2007-2014 Expedition EL models. 4.5 gallons times MPG.

 

[762mm]

Keep doing whatever works for you, I guess.

I'm reluctant to change my ways on this because of how much of a PITA dropping a tank on a domestic truck is. Asian trucks (Nissans, etc) have - or at least used to have, on the ones we owned in the family - an access hatch under the rear seat for the fuel pump, making a replacement procedure like a 10 minute job. But unfortunately the "Big Three" aren't interested in making things any easier for you, the owner.

When I helped swap out that fuel pump on the GMC, we actually Dremeled an access hatch in the floor of the truck, under the rear seat / carpet (no lift available + it was winter & cold). It worked out pretty good and the pump was swapped out without dropping the tank, plus it will be a breeze to replace if it ever goes again. A typical fuel pump job on one of these is one of those jobs where labor is much more than the actual part...

It's Murphy's law for when these damn things decide to break, I tells ya...

 

[Boostedbus]

Years back I bought a used Aerostar passenger van that the fuel gauge didn’t work and had a very loud fuel pump. I went to a pick and pull yard and cut a hole in the floor of a cargo Aerostar van with a hammer and sharp wood chisel to access the top of the tank and remove the pump. I picked a cargo van as the donor so I didn’t have carpet or seats to deal with. My buddy that went with me thought I was a genius for doing it that way. Why lay in the mud under a junker.

When I helped swap out that fuel pump on the GMC, we actually Dremeled an access hatch in the floor of the truck, under the rear seat / carpet (no lift available + it was winter & cold).

When I helped swap out that fuel pump on the GMC, we actually Dremeled an access hatch in the floor of the truck, under the rear seat / carpet (no lift available + it was winter & cold). It worked out pretty good and the pump was swapped out without dropping the tank, plus it will be a breeze to replace if it ever goes again.

 

[762mm]

Years back I bought a used Aerostar passenger van that the fuel gauge didn’t work and had a very loud fuel pump. I went to a pick and pull yard and cut a hole in the floor of a cargo Aerostar van with a hammer and sharp wood chisel to access the top of the tank and remove the pump. I picked a cargo van as the donor so I didn’t have carpet or seats to deal with. My buddy that went with me thought I was a genius for doing it that way. Why lay in the mud under a junker.

Exactly. Why they won't put an access hatch for the fuel pump on every car & truck is beyond me.


Well, actually it isn't... because I know why : $$$!

 

[Boostedbus]

Exactly. Why they won't put an access hatch for the fuel pump on every car & truck is beyond me.


Well, actually it isn't... because I know why : $$$!

Because people will hide their pot there and cause a fire hazard....Lol.... I miss that old Aerostar! I had taken the seats out one weekend and rolled home with a riding mower I bought at a yard sale up in it. It was the extended version and would haul 8 ft. stuff. It was a light metallic brown.... We called it the Brownstar ....Lol!

 

[jeff kushner]

Vans are greatly underestimated by most of us...until we use one!!

Tons of protected space!


Wait a minute, pot is illegal, but "medicine" isn't? LOL


jeff