Longest Service contest.

[NukeLife]

I know I may have some stiff competition, but just thought I would see if I’m in the top 5.

Currently my Expy has been at the dealer since January 5.
So 5 weeks.
Service guy told me yesterday, that they gave up on fixing my transmission and have ordered me a new one.
Wait time? 3-5 weeks. From now.
And then, they get to install /assemble.
And then they get to replace the cam phasers (still on order)
And then they get to start troubleshooting the front diff. (They can’t / won’t look at it until the car is back able to be driven.

So I’m looking at a 10 week service—at minimum.
I’m close to just telling them to buy it back—give me what I have in it and i will walk away. I’m disgusted with Ford at this point.

So I’ll keep the chat updated on when it gets back on the road, but am I winning at this point?

 

[29twonine]

You have me beat, but barely. I think we’re bailing on our ‘18 and hoping for better luck with a ’22.

Mostly transmission issues for us also, along with lots and lots of little issues, couple of days a piece at the dealer.

What a pain.

What‘s wrong with tranny that they finally gave up on it?

 

[Deadman]

Wife Navigator was down 12 weeks or more on cam phasers/engine replacement.
Sold it, junk, gone!

 

[NukeLife]

Wife Navigator was down 12 weeks or more on cam phasers/engine replacement.
Sold it, junk, gone!

Deadman, you were the first person I thought of, when I started to realize how long they were going to have mine.
I remember your saga well.

So I am curious if the new engine in your Navi ever developed the cam phaser knock? And what they told you about “why” your cam phaser knock kept coming back on your original engine.

What is your wife driving now?

 

[NukeLife]

You have me beat, but barely. I think we’re bailing on our ‘18 and hoping for better luck with a ’22.

Mostly transmission issues for us also, along with lots and lots of little issues, couple of days a piece at the dealer.

What a pain.

What‘s wrong with tranny that they finally gave up on it?

A year ago they replaced the main valve body based on the following symptom: when flooring it to accelerate around a car on the interstate, the transmission would downshift to 1st gear, redlining the tachometer. It only happened maybe twice in the first six months of ownership and of course I let Ford look at it and they “couldn’t recreate it” or find anything wrong.

Then it started happening with a little more frequency, and I was able to make it happen while recording the dash on my phone. That’s when they had no choice but to acknowledge it—and fix it. But by that point I’m sure irreversible damage had been done to the internals.
They replaced the main valve body and it was ok for a very brief period and then it started developing very hard shifts coming out of first.

It started running hot when I towed my camper.
And then it would occasionally not downshift at all. Come to a red light and it was still in 7 gear just sitting still—caught on video.. I caught some real hard up shifts on video, too.
Took it back in (with videos in hand) and told them I had had enough—fix the d@mn transmission, for real this time.

And here we are 5 weeks later, waiting on a complete transmission replacement. You would think they could just pull one off the shelf at the truck plant in Kentucky, but evidently not.

They acknowledged that they have to replace all four cam phasers (again), but they won’t do that while it is just setting there waiting on a transmission, because they say they have to be able to start the car and test drive it after the cam phaser job. Ridiculous. so AFTER they are done with the transmission they will START the cam phaser job.

and then AFTER those two are done, they will try to figure out why the truck pulls to the right when you engage the front drive. I suspect a blown CV joint on the passenger front wheel (though it is not making any noise), or a busted front diff.

I hate to give up on this truck, because when it is right, it is awesome. But having been a long time Honda and Toyota guy, my tolerance for this kind of stuff is about zero.

 

[29twonine]

A year ago they replaced the main valve body based on the following symptom: when flooring it to accelerate around a car on the interstate, the transmission would downshift to 1st gear, redlining the tachometer. It only happened maybe twice in the first six months of ownership and of course I let Ford look at it and they “couldn’t recreate it” or find anything wrong.

Then it started happening with a little more frequency, and I was able to make it happen while recording the dash on my phone. That’s when they had no choice but to acknowledge it—and fix it. But by that point I’m sure irreversible damage had been done to the internals.
They replaced the main valve body and it was ok for a very brief period and then it started developing very hard shifts coming out of first.

It started running hot when I towed my camper.
And then it would occasionally not downshift at all. Come to a red light and it was still in 7 gear just sitting still—caught on video.. I caught some real hard up shifts on video, too.
Took it back in (with videos in hand) and told them I had had enough—fix the d@mn transmission, for real this time.

And here we are 5 weeks later, waiting on a complete transmission replacement. You would think they could just pull one off the shelf at the truck plant in Kentucky, but evidently not.

They acknowledged that they have to replace all four cam phasers (again), but they won’t do that while it is just setting there waiting on a transmission, because they say they have to be able to start the car and test drive it after the cam phaser job. Ridiculous. so AFTER they are done with the transmission they will START the cam phaser job.

and then AFTER those two are done, they will try to figure out why the truck pulls to the right when you engage the front drive. I suspect a blown CV joint on the passenger front wheel (though it is not making any noise), or a busted front diff.

I hate to give up on this truck, because when it is right, it is awesome. But having been a long time Honda and Toyota guy, my tolerance for this kind of stuff is about zero.

Wow.. We just got ours back from the dealer after two weeks this time. We’ve had the valve control body replaced once due to hard downshifting, but twice now we’ve had the transmission spew the fluid out and overheat and obviously not stay in gear. This time they claim it was overfilled and they just changed the fluid and filters and said they couldn’t duplicate.

Needless to say, I don’t trust this thing enough anymore to drive it anymore than about 30 miles from our house so we’re talking to dealer this week about ordering a new one.

We’re not going back to a minivan and not a fan of GM so hopefully better luck with a new Expedition.

good luck!

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Wow.. We just got ours back from the dealer after two weeks this time. We’ve had the valve control body replaced once due to hard downshifting, but twice now we’ve had the transmission spew the fluid out and overheat and obviously not stay in gear. This time they claim it was overfilled and they just changed the fluid and filters and said they couldn’t duplicate.

Needless to say, I don’t trust this thing enough anymore to drive it anymore than about 30 miles from our house so we’re talking to dealer this week about ordering a new one.

We’re not going back to a minivan and not a fan of GM so hopefully better luck with a new Expedition.

good luck!

I had a lot of trouble with my 2015 Expedition Limited 4x4, purchased new. I would never buy another one due to the poor quality and poor dealer service.

Friday, it goes back to the Ford dealer to repair a vacuum moan, with the front hubs jerking and engaging briefly, while driving in 2WD.

I’m amazed that you would have so much problem with a vehicle, including poor dealer service - then turn around and buy another one (built by the same people at the same plant with parts from the same suppliers).

Vehicle manufacturers are selling everything they can build due the parts shortage issues, and I’m convinced that any shred of quality contol is gone. Their goal is to build and sell - and let their dealers figure out the problems.

Good luck.

 

[Deadman]

Deadman, you were the first person I thought of, when I started to realize how long they were going to have mine.
I remember your saga well.

So I am curious if the new engine in your Navi ever developed the cam phaser knock? And what they told you about “why” your cam phaser knock kept coming back on your original engine.

What is your wife driving now?

We literally waited for it to finally run with NO check engine light and we dumped it. Wife bought a 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Summitt Reserve with a Semi in it. Its smaller I know, but for what it is, she absolutely loves it. It sucks fuel like there's a hole in the tank, but it rides really well being on Air bags. Its had a couple electrical issues, but they resolved them reasonably quick. I've only driven it once, I refuse to drive it because it has a light brown interior in it and my wife will blame me for every stain on those light seats. My seats are black and I literally go cut firewood and climb right in mine and the seats look brand new being black. lol

 

[NukeLife]

We literally waited for it to finally run with NO check engine light and we dumped it. Wife bought a 2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Summitt Reserve with a Semi in it. Its smaller I know, but for what it is, she absolutely loves it. It sucks fuel like there's a hole in the tank, but it rides really well being on Air bags. Its had a couple electrical issues, but they resolved them reasonably quick. I've only driven it once, I refuse to drive it because it has a light brown interior in it and my wife will blame me for every stain on those light seats. My seats are black and I literally go cut firewood and climb right in mine and the seats look brand new being black. lol

Yeah, that’s my plan.

As soon as I get it back, with everything fixed, I’ll be letting it go.
Somebody will get a nice Platinum Expy with upgraded sway bars and ReadyLift already installed.
With a brand new transmission and 30,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty remaining.

Maybe it performs great for the next 80,000 miles? Maybe it spends half its life in the service department.

At this point I could care less.

 

[29twonine]

I had a lot of trouble with my 2015 Expedition Limited 4x4, purchased new. I would never buy another one due to the poor quality and poor dealer service.

Friday, it goes back to the Ford dealer to repair a vacuum moan, with the front hubs jerking and engaging briefly, while driving in 2WD.

I’m amazed that you would have so much problem with a vehicle, including poor dealer service - then turn around and buy another one (built by the same people at the same plant with parts from the same suppliers).

Vehicle manufacturers are selling everything they can build due the parts shortage issues, and I’m convinced that any shred of quality contol is gone. Their goal is to build and sell - and let their dealers figure out the problems.

Good luck.

I totally agree, I just don’t know what else to do at this point! Dont want to go back to minivan, wife thinks Sequoias are too ugly, surburabans & Yukons-no thanks, Navigator doesn’t have enough room behind 3rd row. We have 3 boys going on teenagers so we need something big.

That leaves us back to Expedition. Lots of our issues have been resolved since the ‘18 models and don’t get me wrong, I hate the idea of giving Ford more money but I honestly don’t know what else to do at this point!

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I totally agree, I just don’t know what else to do at this point! Dont want to go back to minivan, wife thinks Sequoias are too ugly, surburabans & Yukons-no thanks, Navigator doesn’t have enough room behind 3rd row. We have 3 boys going on teenagers so we need something big.

That leaves us back to Expedition. Lots of our issues have been resolved since the ‘18 models and don’t get me wrong, I hate the idea of giving Ford more money but I honestly don’t know what else to do at this point!

You make some very good points - and I’m in somewhat of the same situation.

I still have a Ford Premium extended warranty in effect for my Expedition - but when it expires, I’ll be ready to get rid of it (I usually buy new with a factory extended warranty).

I’m not sure what I’ll buy - but I still want a full-size SUV (not necessarily an extended wheelbase one), as I carry several passengers daily.

Good luck - I hope whatever you get works out for you.

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

I'd be dumping that thing. Matter of fact, I agree, I don't even think it would leave the shop. 5 weeks and it's not fixed, plus two or three more?? No, I'd be looking for the Ford rep to buy back and/or contacting an attorney to lemon law.

Cam phasers again? Mine is due for an oil change next month. Gonna tell them to NOT do anything about those "customer satisfaction campaigns" (Customer satisfaction? HA!!! They mean Ford Satisfaction). Doesn't seem broken, so don't fix it.

I also don't know what to do. I really like this truck, but I'm about done with it AND FORD! They turned their backs on us with this cam phaser thing. I'd like to get something new, but it won't be FOMOCO. Nothing else really excites me, nothing else wows me.

Good luck!

 

[Anerbe]

With your length of issues, it's totally justified to forget about Ford in your next purchase. Unfortunately, you just have to purchase a vehicle with the features you need, and it could very well point back to the Expedition. My no-no brand is anything Stellantis. My JGC in the past was a big POS - it would randomly shut off switching from reverse to drive. Imagine having to back up onto a road, only to stall. They never could figure it out, had horrible gas mileage (12MPG with cylinder deactivation), and the door seals seemed to disappear after 18 months, creaking and airnoise like no other.

I know they recently launched the Wagoneer, but I'm glad there's other options out there which overlap (Ford/GM). If not, I'd have to deal with the ugly design and the big reliability risks. Inside sure is beautiful tho.

 

[5280tunage]

With your length of issues, it's totally justified to forget about Ford in your next purchase. Unfortunately, you just have to purchase a vehicle with the features you need, and it could very well point back to the Expedition. My no-no brand is anything Stellantis. My JGC in the past was a big POS - it would randomly shut off switching from reverse to drive. Imagine having to back up onto a road, only to stall. They never could figure it out, had horrible gas mileage (12MPG with cylinder deactivation), and the door seals seemed to disappear after 18 months, creaking and airnoise like no other.

I know they recently launched the Wagoneer, but I'm glad there's other options out there which overlap (Ford/GM). If not, I'd have to deal with the ugly design and the big reliability risks. Inside sure is beautiful tho.

@Anerbe - but I think this speaks to part of the problem with so many mfr's right now, especially it seems the US based ones. The manufacturing tolerances create such disparity between products. Not including these last couple years (as I believe with supply chain woes, ever mfr is experiencing part quality issues), many others like Hyundai, Honda, Toyota all have pretty tight tolerances, ever car of the line is very similar to the one before it, but these US cars, not so much. I've had 5 GC's and other than a screwed up moonroof that took years to properly diagnose and fix, my Wk2 was amazing. 120k miles and very few issues, but i also take far better care of my vehicles than many.

I only pray I can get 120k out of this with as few issues as I had before (technically i'm already worse than the GC on major issues).

 

[NukeLife]

@Anerbe - but I think this speaks to part of the problem with so many mfr's right now, especially it seems the US based ones. The manufacturing tolerances create such disparity between products. Not including these last couple years (as I believe with supply chain woes, ever mfr is experiencing part quality issues), many others like Hyundai, Honda, Toyota all have pretty tight tolerances, ever car of the line is very similar to the one before it, but these US cars, not so much. I've had 5 GC's and other than a screwed up moonroof that took years to properly diagnose and fix, my Wk2 was amazing. 120k miles and very few issues, but i also take far better care of my vehicles than many.

I only pray I can get 120k out of this with as few issues as I had before (technically i'm already worse than the GC on major issues).

Yes, I think you have hit at the crux of my disappointment / frustration.

There are tens of thousands of 2018 and 2019 Expy’s out there on the road that have not had the cam phaser issue (yet?)
And an equally large number that have not had major transmission failure. (Although the number of owners experiencing rough shifting seems to be very large).

So this speaks to a quality control problem during manufacture.
If it were strictly a poor design, then (in theory) every one would eventually succumb to the fllaw.
But no, Ford tells me that only a small percentage will experience this issue. First off, I’m not convinced that it is a small percentage.
And secondly, what is happening during the build process that is resulting in latent failures of this magnitude?

If I’m top brass at Ford, don’t you think I would want to know right !@#$ NOW! What was causing this problem in my Expy /F150 platform?? I mean, that platform is THE number one selling vehicle in America. I would rapidly dig deep and find / correct this issue.
And then go back and make it right with all the people that have purchased one of the bad apples.

But all you get from Ford, is …“after manufacture date June 2020, the 3.5EB in your Expedition is not susceptible to the cam phaser rattle”..……uh ok. So what did you change?

(Crickets chirping)

So you KNOW the cam phaser issue won‘t pop up in a 2021 Expy, ..but you won’t tell me WHY you know that.

Because you are hoping you can keep tap dancing long enough for my warranty to run out, and then… welp… it’s not your problem, right Ford?

Yeah, F. U.

It’s a quality control problem, that they found and fixed. And maybe an improved design to provide a little more margin to failure. (Improved oil porting?). And they are being slimy as F@#K in not doing the right thing for the owners with proven bad engines. Keep putting that bandaid on and smiling until the warranty runs out.

The ”standardized quality“ you see in a Toyota is far more consistent.
And when there is a problem, Toyota will acknowledge it and own it.

If Ford were being forthright and aggressively beating this problem down? .. yeah, ok, I can see giving them another chance.
I love my Expy. I really wish it were a good one.
But it’s not, and Ford has really disappointed me in how they have handled this. Sadly, there will not be another Expy in my future—or anything based on that platform, for that matter.

I’m contemplating an F250 diesel, but quite frankly, I just don’t want anything to do with Ford right now.

 

[DWs-TTEB]

My ‘19 has 46,789 miles and never had any cam phaser issues to date (*knocking on wood with every readers glance here). Guess I got a good one 4-20-2019 build. I always use Ultra platinum Pennzoil Full synthetic oil 5w20 and change myself when the oil life meter says 30%. Maybe that’s been helpful

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

Yes, I think you have hit at the crux of my disappointment / frustration.

There are tens of thousands of 2018 and 2019 Expy’s out there on the road that have not had the cam phaser issue (yet?)
And an equally large number that have not had major transmission failure. (Although the number of owners experiencing rough shifting seems to be very large).

So this speaks to a quality control problem during manufacture.
If it were strictly a poor design, then (in theory) every one would eventually succumb to the fllaw.
But no, Ford tells me that only a small percentage will experience this issue. First off, I’m not convinced that it is a small percentage.
And secondly, what is happening during the build process that is resulting in latent failures of this magnitude?

If I’m top brass at Ford, don’t you think I would want to know right !@#$ NOW! What was causing this problem in my Expy /F150 platform?? I mean, that platform is THE number one selling vehicle in America. I would rapidly dig deep and find / correct this issue.
And then go back and make it right with all the people that have purchased one of the bad apples.

But all you get from Ford, is …“after manufacture date June 2020, the 3.5EB in your Expedition is not susceptible to the cam phaser rattle”..……uh ok. So what did you change?

(Crickets chirping)

So you KNOW the cam phaser issue won‘t pop up in a 2021 Expy, ..but you won’t tell me WHY you know that.

Because you are hoping you can keep tap dancing long enough for my warranty to run out, and then… welp… it’s not your problem, right Ford?

Yeah, F. U.

It’s a quality control problem, that they found and fixed. And maybe an improved design to provide a little more margin to failure. (Improved oil porting?). And they are being slimy as F@#K in not doing the right thing for the owners with proven bad engines. Keep putting that bandaid on and smiling until the warranty runs out.

The ”standardized quality“ you see in a Toyota is far more consistent.
And when there is a problem, Toyota will acknowledge it and own it.

If Ford were being forthright and aggressively beating this problem down? .. yeah, ok, I can see giving them another chance.
I love my Expy. I really wish it were a good one.
But it’s not, and Ford has really disappointed me in how they have handled this. Sadly, there will not be another Expy in my future—or anything based on that platform, for that matter.

I’m contemplating an F250 diesel, but quite frankly, I just don’t want anything to do with Ford right now.

Yup, what he said! I agree 100%. Ford turned their backs. F them. Guess it'll be another 35 years before I buy a new one. Oh, right, by then I won't know who I am.

 

[NukeLife]

I had to tab over to page 8 to grab this thread back..

Well guys,… got the call about an hour ago. The dealership is ready for me to pick up my girl tomorrow.
I’ll let you know how it goes….

I’m kinda nervous… we haven’t seen each other in nine weeks… is it going to be awkward the first time again???…

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

I’m kinda nervous… we haven’t seen each other in nine weeks… is it going to be awkward the first time again???…

Delete any photos of you test driving the Hondas and Toyotas before you pick her up.

 

[NukeLife]

Delete any photos of you test driving the Hondas and Toyotas before you pick her up.

Good advice