Multiple misfires even after replacing a few things

[bggunnz2016]

Hey guys, I need some help with intermittent misfire ghosts in my system..... Had multiple misfires and then also cylinder 2 misfires before the replacements as well
2013 Expedition EL Limited, 172k miles, All new Duralast Coil packs, all new Champion plugs, left and right camshaft position sensors, 2 new VCT solenoids (Had the local mechanic Scan it and they thought VCT so I changed them both). Mechanic supposedly checked fuel trim, compression and said everything looked good.

I get the misfires when I have been in stop and go traffic at an idle. Doesn't seem to misfire at higher speeds.. and the misfires aren't consistent so in my mind, I would think that it isn't a mechanical timing issue otherwise it would be all the time, right?

Ugghh... ANY Help would be appreciated

 

[Trainmaster]

Welcome. It sounds like you have a mechanic who is throwing parts at a problem he can't diagnose.

Are your current misfires still in cylinder 2? Something may be breaking down when it gets hot. This is common with coils. Why would you replace eight OEM coils with Chinese replacements? It wasn't wise to replace all the coils as you introduce the potential for other problems.

At this point you should determine where the miss is occurring. A good mechanic with good equipment can do this. Hopefully it's a single cylinder and you can move that plug and coil elsewhere, see if the problem follows it and then replace the offending parts.

It's always possible that the problem lies elsewhere, like the valve train, head gasket or injectors. Good diagnostics should enable you to narrow that down. Stop replacing thing blindly. With the poor quality of some new parts, you risk introducing new problems before the original trouble is found.

Good luck with your search. We've all been there.

 

[bggunnz2016]

As with my 99 Expedition, whenever there was a misfire, it was usually a coil pack, maybe a plug. I NEVER had any issues with the duralast gold coil packs

 

[Trainmaster]

whenever there was a misfire, it was usually a coil pack, maybe a plug. I NEVER had any issues with the duralast gold coil packs

I'll be nice and say the problem with lots of cheap auto parts from far away places is a lack of consistency. Some are great, some aren't. They can have you chasing your tail and really wasting your time, which is exactly what you are doing now. That's why there's a market for coils that cost 10 times the price of the Chinese ones.

You asked, and I gave my opinion. You're welcome.

 

[bggunnz2016]

Just saying that if I wanted an opinion on cheap parts or expensive parts, your answer would be right on the money. What I am looking for are some thoughts from someone who has some actual experience similar to what I am experiencing especially since the original ford parts were also present with the same symptoms.

 

[Yupster Dog]

Are the misfires still on #2?
Does it throw codes when it misfires?
Try sitting at idle and wiggle the coil packs harness to see if you can reproduce the misfire.

 

[bggunnz2016]

Yes sir.. Still on #2 as well as multiple.. I will try that.. Also, it occurs more on idle in gear than in park at idle..... I will update after that. Thanks YD

 

[bggunnz2016]

Hey YD, I am also getting
P0025 - "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 2) . I have replaced both VTC's as well.. I read that in certain circumstances, the misfire profile correction needs to be factory reset and it can be done with a snap-on scanner

 

[Yupster Dog]

Hey YD, I am also getting
P0025 - "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 2) . I have replaced both VTC's as well.. I read that in certain circumstances, the misfire profile correction needs to be factory reset and it can be done with a snap-on scanner

I have not heard of a scanner needed to reset a misfire.

Have you heard of FORScan?
Check this out,
https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/forscan-tweaks-2015.32082/

Anything a snap-on scanner can do FORScan can do plus a whole lot more.
It will give you a lot more info about what is going on.

 

[Yupster Dog]

Yes sir.. Still on #2 as well as multiple.. I will try that.. Also, it occurs more on idle in gear than in park at idle..... I will update after that. Thanks YD

After that switch #2 coil pack with another cylinder and see if the misfire moves.
If misfire doesn't move, remove #2 sparkplug and inspect (could be as little as a hairline crack in porcelain) then switch with another cylinder and see if misfire moves.

 

[bggunnz2016]

After that switch #2 coil pack with another cylinder and see if the misfire moves.
If misfire doesn't move, remove #2 sparkplug and inspect (could be as little as a hairline crack in porcelain) then switch with another cylinder and see if misfire moves.

I have been using Torque with a Bluetooth adapter.. Is it at all possible that bad injectors could be causing all the codes to be thrown? I took it to ANOTHER Mechanic this morning and he was saying that "Could be a stretched chain" but I probably need a new timing chain kit or a new engine..... Wow, as far as money goes, both ends of the spectrum... Again no help from the "PROFESSIONALS" at the shop...

 

[Yupster Dog]

I have been using Torque with a Bluetooth adapter.. Is it at all possible that bad injectors could be causing all the codes to be thrown? I took it to ANOTHER Mechanic this morning and he was saying that "Could be a stretched chain" but I probably need a new timing chain kit or a new engine..... Wow, as far as money goes, both ends of the spectrum... Again no help from the "PROFESSIONALS" at the shop...

Do the coil pack switch and do the spark plug switch one at a time. If the misfire does not move then we will move on to the next step in figuring out what it is.

 

[bggunnz2016]

Sounds good.... That should be fairly quick tomorrow.

 

[bggunnz2016]

Hey YD, if it was a physical timing chain part (chain or other components), wouldn't the problem be consistent and not intermittent like what I am currently seeing?

 

[Yupster Dog]

Hey YD, if it was a physical timing chain part (chain or other components), wouldn't the problem be consistent and not intermittent like what I am currently seeing?

Cannot diagnose anything across the internet without tests and results to either rule out or confirm.
Quit worrying about what it could be and let's try to find out what it really is.

Clear the codes switch the coil pack and drive it till you get a code.
If missfire moves, get a new coil pack.
If missfire stayed, clear codes again and inspect and move sparkplug. Drive till you get a code.
Report back with the results.

 

[Boostedbus]

Once you do the switch a roo, you can use a temperature gun (if you have one) on the exhaust ports of each cylinder if you wanna know instantly if the misfire moved to the switched cylinder. I just had an Ill running Can Am Outlander V-twin 800 that I noticed the rear head pipe was cold while running. I switched the spark plug with the front cylinder and low and behold the front pipe was now cold and the rear pipe hot. I even had a spark with that plug when it was out of the cylinder running plugged in and against a ground. But I guess it wasn’t a good enough spark for ignition. I’m glad I still tried the switch a roo with the plugs before condemned the injector or coil on the original dead cylinder. I kinda knew it was getting fuel anyway because the plug was gas fouled when I pulled it. I put a new set of plugs in and it’s good as new. Old school diagnostics! I actually used my hand and not a temperature gun,but that’s more difficult on a multiple port manifold opposed to a separate head pipe like in my case. When I say it was cold I mean it was ice cold dead cylinder.

 

[bggunnz2016]

Ok YD and Boosted, here is an update.... I did the switching and I was still getting CY 2 and looked at the history of the misfires and found them only in cyliders 1-3. I swapped the injectors and the misfires followed the swap. Replaced the injectors 1-4 and no more misfires. YAY!!!... HOWEVER, I still have the P0025 - "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 2)
but THAT is the ONLY code I have now.... After the truck warms up, it will throw that code and the idle gets rough and the truck stalls.

When I bought the truck 1.5 months ago, everything was perfect but I started doing a regular maintenance process. New battery (original FoMoCo MotorCraft died on me), oil change with Synthetic blend, brakes, and a few other minor things. Variable timing solenoids are new

 

[Trainmaster]

Just picking at straws here, but what if you unplug the timing solenoids when it acts up? Perhaps one of the VCTs is behaving badly or has an intermittent plug or wiring? I know they were replaced, but unplugging them should help you rule out the variable timing and its components. Just be prepared for more codes when you unplug them.

Any bad sounds coming from the rockers or valve train on that side?

 

[bggunnz2016]

TM, I was thinking about unplugging them for testing purposes but I wasn't sure about it..... That was going to be another question... Thank you for the extra thoughts and tips....

GREATLY Appreciated brother.. So My issue in on bank 2 (drivers side)... I will unplug that one in the AM to see if that takes me any further..

 

[bggunnz2016]

TM or anyone, what would you recommend as the testing procedure? Meaning, should I just unplug the one that is erroring out dor a test drive or should I unplug both...

Sorry, this is the newest Expy that I have owned and my other one is a 99 5.4 triton..