Rear brake/hub issue

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whtbronco

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I went to adjust the parking brake on my 04, the parking brake on these is as many have found the most frustrating and challenging brake assembly I have ever deal with. Drum brakes are no problem for me, these are special. I found that my rear rotors were not running true, like they had warped both side-side and up-down causing the parking to rub every rotation. You could see the rotors move in/out a little and up/down much more about 1/32" with the rear on jack stands, removed tires/wheels, engine running and in gear. Okay so I checked the hubs, these were running slightly out of round as well. At least this makes sense since it's unlikely both rotors were messed up and just how the hell does a rotor get out of round in circumference anyway. I also talked to my wife since she had recently jumped a local railroad track about how high she went, 2' give or take she said, ugh. I replaced the hubs, the hubs ran true, but the rotors had no improvement. Fine I'll replace the rotors, and the pads and parking brake as well. Same results. I'm completely lost as to how this is possible and what to do. The only other thing that rotates are the cv axles which are fairly new Motorcraft brand. Any thoughts on what to do?

Hubs replaced with Motorcraft. I tried SKF and returned them as they were not what I wanted, they did not match the photos and had the same part # printed on them as Moog's.

Rotors Raybestos truck specialty high carbon, figured I'd try them since I like their pads so much. Pads because I love these pads the Raybestos Element3 Hybrid, GG rating and man they bite great and provide wonderful feedback.
 

Hamfisted

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Are you adjusting your parking brake with a caliper? Or just doing it by feel / ear ?
Normally they're adjusted when installed new with a caliper.
The diameter clearance is .010" - .012" between the shoe surface and the drum of the rotor.

12" Digital Caliper on Amazon







.
 
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whtbronco

whtbronco

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Yeah this time I decided to do it right and purchased a drum brake gauge, GearWrench 3377. In hindsight I think a traditional 12" long reach digital caliper would have been easier. The drum gauge certainly made setting the parking brake easier than doing it by feel which I think is questionable at best, but still far more time and effort than I have ever spent on full size drums.

With the hubs and brakes I replaced still on it I had backed the parking brake adjuster off all the way and then removed it entirely. That made it rub just a little bit so I could drive it, though being someone that uses the parking brake every time I park I sure didn't like it.

Anyway, I cannot wrap my head around what's causing the rotors to run out of true. I even cleaned the spindle and and dust shield to ensure I didn't have any crap get in between. I think I'm gonna take the rotors to a local machine shop and have them checked.

I've got until next Saturday to resolve this and a control arm bolt/nut replaced since it won't stay tight. Kinda feeling the pressure. My daughter is going back to college and being in ROTC she has a lot of gear to haul.
 
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whtbronco

whtbronco

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Since no one likes a thread with no resolution here's a quick update.

I found a Ford/Motorcraft control arm bolt that I thought would work and it did. The nut was a bit small in total diameter so I picked up a grade 8 washer as well. The bolt now tightens and I was able to throw it through turns again consistently. The local Ford dealer said I needed a $135 cam kit that had to be ordered. They had the nut and bolt in stock though.

Nut: W520217-S441 $2 ea
Bolt: W712104-S439 $12 ea

On to the hubs and brakes. A 2nd set of new rotors are expected to be delivered tomorrow. Motorcraft this time. I'm quickly realizing that for most things I am much happier if I buy genuine GM and/or Motorcraft parts.

Interesting thing. We have 2 GM W-body Monte Carlo's, the Expedition and a Ranger. The Ranger is the only one with drum rear brakes, it also has by far the best parking brake of the 4. Course it uses the full brake shoes with vastly more surface area than the others as well. Drum brakes aren't all bad, but the hat style rotor with mini-drum parking brake just sucks.
 
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whtbronco

whtbronco

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I really like the Raybestos Element3 Hybrid brake pads. They are rated GG, stop great and provide terrific feed back. That said I won't buy another Raybestos rotor. After 2 sets were significantly out of round. The Motorcraft rotors are near perfectly round as they should be.

So the very minor vibration from 65mph and up is now gone, had no idea it was the rear hubs. The parking brake remains to be addressed. It's become clear to me that this rather simple process entirely escapes me. I have very carefully set the drum gauge tool and then used it to set the parking brake shoes. If I set the shoes to 0.02" under the drum size, the rotor won't even go on, I know that, makes no sense. It's very obvious that the brake shoes are not even close to producing a circle, the center of each is the widest point and is what contacts the drum. I have 3 sets of shoes on hand, the factory Motorcraft, Wagner and Raybestos. The shape of all 3 matches. The originals are worn only in the center of the shoes. For the moment the parking brake shoes are set to 0.06 smaller than the inside diameter of the rotor drum. Of course the parking brake is pretty much useless at the moment. These new Motorcraft rotors were fully coated I'll wear the coating off the drum surface today and try setting it again this weekend.
 
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whtbronco

whtbronco

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Took a while to get back to this, though interestingly the parking brake improved slowly during this delay. I use the parking brake every single time I park. I think these parking brake shoes flex when applied and begin to flex a bit easier over time, anyway that's my thought.

I intentionally lightly and for short distances applied the parking brake multiple while driving slowly times to fully wear the coating off the braking surface and wear the center of the brake shoes. This likely contributed to the improved performance.

I have now been able to set the parking to just 0.04" smaller than the parking brake drum inner diameter. That's as close as I can get right now without requiring too much effort to install and rubbing too much when not applied. It's good enough now and holds quite well considering it's a truly pathetic design. Traditional drum brakes or a caliper with the parking brake integrated would be vastly better.

I may revisit this again in the future to see if I can get closer to the recommended 0.02" gap, but I'm not sure the performance would improve any.

In the end the fix was new hubs and rotors(3rd set were round) which required new pads and I went ahead and replaced the parking shoes again, though I'm not sure that was needed. I always replace all the brake hardware so I did that as well, there's no increase in effort and it's low cost.
 

Vincent Vega

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@whtbronco thanks for the info on this. I am a Motorcraft guy but recently caught myself looking at cheaper rotors to replace my rear brakes soon. Your posting helped set me straight again. BTW I don't think my parking brake has worked worth a Sh since I bought it new in 04.
 
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whtbronco

whtbronco

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I'm always trying to save a buck as well, but the last couple years it seems I'm not pleased with most parts that are not factory replacements. I hate the price, but sometimes it's worth it.

Here's the rear brake parts I used from Rock Auto:
Rotors: MOTORCRAFT NBRR109 (Fully Coated (Maximum Protection For Rust Prone Areas)) Service Design; Coated $51 (these rotors still look new due to the lack of rust)

Pads: RAYBESTOS EHT935 (Premium) Element3 Hybrid Technology $34 (love these pads)

Parking brake shoes: RAYBESTOS 811PG (Daily Driver) Organic $12

Caliper pins: RAYBESTOS H5025W $2 (turns out they were likely not needed)

Parking brake hardware: RAYBESTOS H7325 $22
 
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whtbronco

whtbronco

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I also used a brake shoe caliper like this one:


That said I had pondered just getting a set of digital calipers with longer arms and in hindsight I wish I had. At least I'd be more likely to use it and I found the caliper I bought kinda tough to use. No matter what tool you use to measure the drum and set the shoes make darn sure you measure and "do it right". Otherwise it's a crap shoot at best, 1 side will work better than the other and you will fight for hours or more trying to get it right.

Something like one, that's a bit expensive, just make sure it will measure inside and outside and locks:
 
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Randy-IA

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What you describe with your parking brake is why I left all the guts out the last time I put new rotors on.

What you can do is harder to accomplish but works very well in most cases. Just add in a line lock. It's not cheap or easy but it uses the caliper as the brake. Assuming you can find a unit that will hold pressure indefinitely. I have no suggestions for that.
 
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whtbronco

whtbronco

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I like the idea of a hydraulic line lock, thanks. Now I need to find out if it would pass the safety inspection here in VA.
 

Yupster Dog

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I like the idea of a hydraulic line lock, thanks. Now I need to find out if it would pass the safety inspection here in VA.
Here is the whole parking brake section from the Virginia state police safety inspection manual. The inspectors must follow this to the letter.





19VAC30-70-90. Brakes: emergency, parking, or holding; batteries.
A.
Some vehicles are equipped with an actual emergency brake, while others have only a
parking or holding brake. Some types may be actuated by a foot or hand lever, while
others may incorporate a switch or valve to actuate the brake. Air and vacuum brake
systems may employ spring activating parking brakes.
B. Inspect for and reject if:
1. Vehicle or combination of vehicles is not equipped with a parking, holding, or
emergency brake in good working order of the type installed as original standard
factory equipment for the vehicle on which it is installed.
2. The parking brake actuating mechanism does not fully release when the control is
operated to the off position or if the parking brake lamp light remains on.
NOTE: The light does not apply to vehicles that are not equipped with a parking (emergency)
brake indicator light.
3. Any mechanical parts are missing, broken, badly worn, or are inoperative.
4. Cables are stretched, worn, or frayed or not operating freely.
5. Grease or similar-type contamination is present on the linings, drums, or rotors.
6. Parking brake will not hold the vehicle stationary with the engine running at slightly
accelerated speed with shift lever in drive position for automatic transmission or shift
lever in low gear with clutch engaged for standard shift transmission.
7. Holding brake will not disengage when engine is started and vehicle is placed in drive.
Holding brake will not hold vehicle stationary with foot on holding brake and vehicle
in drive.
8. On vehicles equipped with automatic transmissions, the vehicle will start in any gear
other than (P) park and (N) neutral. If the gearshift indicator does not identify the park
(P) and neutral (N) positions, then the vehicle shall be rejected.
9. On vehicles equipped with manual transmissions, the vehicle will start in any gear if
the clutch is not depressed or disengaged.
NOTE: This will not apply to older model vehicles, which were not originally equipped with
a neutral-safety switch, clutch disengagement system or clutch pedal position sensor by the
manufacturer.
10. The accelerator does not disengage after being depressed, allowing the engine to
return to a normal idle speed.
 

Yupster Dog

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I like the idea of a hydraulic line lock, thanks. Now I need to find out if it would pass the safety inspection here in VA.
Here is the inspect and reject for the rest of the braking system,

D. Inspect for and reject if:
1. Vehicle is not equipped with brakes or any brake has been disconnected, rendered
inoperative, or improperly installed. Trailers having an actual gross weight of less
than 3,000 pounds are not required to be equipped with brakes; however, if brakes
are installed, these vehicles must be inspected.
Brake System Failure Indicator Lamp
2. Passenger vehicles manufactured after January 1, 1968, are not equipped with a
red brake failure warning lamp or warning lamp does not light with parking brake
applied when ignition key is turned to the start position, except for anti-lock
system. The red brake failure warning lamp should light when the ignition key is
turned to the start position; on some imports it may be checked when the
emergency brake is applied or other factory installed test button. (DO NOT reject
if only the amber ABS/anti-lock brake lamp is on.) With the engine running and
parking brake released, the red brake failure warning lamp should go off, except
for vehicles equipped with anti-lock system. If so, apply service brake for 10


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seconds and if the red brake failure warning lamp lights again the system is
defective. Also, if the warning lamp light does not come on when there is a leak
or the warning lamp light is not functioning properly, the system is defective and
shall be rejected. NOTE: This subdivision does not apply to vehicles registered as
street rods nor does it imply that the red brake failure warning lamp needs to light
when the emergency brake is set. There are many vehicles that are not factory
equipped with an emergency brake indicator light.
Note: Vehicles equipped with a brake pad wear indicator warning light shall not constitute
an automatic rejection for the vehicle submitted for a safety inspection. Each vehicle
manufacturer has determined an appropriate level to activate the brake pad wear indicator
warning light; therefore, it shall be the responsibility of the inspector to confirm whether
or not the brake pads have exceeded the established tolerance of 2/32 of an inch.
Brake Linings and Disc Pads
3. Riveted linings or disc pads are worn to less than 2/32 of an inch over the rivet
heads.
4. Bonded or molded linings or disc pads are worn to less than 2/32 of an inch in
thickness at any point, not to include manufactured slots.
5. Wire in wire-backed lining is visible in friction surface.
6. Snap-on brake linings are loose.
7. Any lining is broken or cracked so that the lining or parts of the lining are not
firmly attached to the shoe or has cracks on the friction surface extending to the
open edge.
8. Grease or other contamination is present on the linings, drums, or rotors.
9. Rivets in riveted linings are loose or missing.
10. Any lining or pad is misaligned or does not make full contact with the drum or
rotor with the exception of minor scoring caused by debris, provided it does not affect
braking efficiency.
11. Any foreign material or debris caught between a drum or rotor and the brake pad.
Brake Drums and Discs
NOTE: The inspector shall ensure that the minimum measurements in subdivisions D 3
and D 4 of this section are obtained.
12. Brake drums or brake discs (rotors) are worn or scored to the extent that their
machining would result in a failure to meet manufacturer's specifications. Use the
specification stamped on the rotor or drum if available.
13. Brake drums or brake discs (rotors) are scored to the extent that the braking surface
is reduced to the point that the braking efficiency is adversely affected. This does
not apply to minor scoring caused by debris.
NOTE: A number of vehicles on the market are equipped with a lock nut to hold the rear
brake drum in place. Manufacturers recommend replacement of these lock nuts after each
removal to prevent failure of the component. If the customer is advised up front, then the
wholesale cost of the replacement nut may be charged to the customer.


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NOTE: The proper method to remove the rear brake assembly on the 2000 Ford Focus is
to remove the four bolts from the opposite side of the assembly. Removal otherwise may
damage the outside grease cap and incur a cost to replace.
14. Brake drums or discs have any external crack or cracks more than one half the
width of the friction surface of the drum or disc. NOTE: Do not confuse short
hairline heat cracks with flexural cracks.
Mechanical Linkage
15. Cables are frayed or frozen.
16. Mechanical parts missing, broken, badly worn, or misaligned.
E. Hydraulic.
NOTE: Some motor vehicles, beginning with 1976 models, have a hydraulic power
system that serves both the power-assisted brakes and power-assisted steering system.
Some vehicles, beginning with 1985 models, have an integrated hydraulic actuation and
anti-lock brake unit using only brake fluid.
1. Brake hydraulic system. Inspector should check the brake hydraulic system in the
following manner: test vehicle in a standing position; apply moderate pressure to
the brake pedal for 10 seconds. Brake pedal height must be maintained. On
vehicles equipped with power-assisted systems, the engine should be running.
2. Hydraulic system operation. Stop engine, then depress brake pedal several times
to eliminate all pressure. Depress pedal with a light foot-force (30 pounds). While
maintaining this force on the pedal, start engine and observe if pedal moves
slightly when engine starts.
Reject vehicle if pedal does not move slightly as engine is started while force is
on brake pedal.
3. Condition of hydraulic booster power brake system. Inspect system for fluid level
and leaks.
Reject vehicle if there is insufficient fluid in the reservoir; if there are broken,
kinked or restricted fluid lines or hoses; if there is any leakage of fluid at the pump,


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steering gear or brake booster, or any of the lines or hoses in the system; or if belts
are frayed, cracked or excessively worn.
4. Integrated hydraulic booster/anti-lock system operation. With the ignition key in
the off position, depress brake pedal a minimum of 25 times to deplete all residual
stored pressure in the accumulator. Depress pedal with a light foot-force (25
pounds). Place ignition key in the on position and allow 60 seconds for the brake
warning light to go out and the electric pump to shut off.
Reject vehicle if the brake pedal does not move down slightly as the pump builds
pressure or if the brake and anti-lock warning lights remain on longer than 60
seconds.
NOTE: The inspection of the ABS light is only for an integrated system that is an earlier
system. The newer system that has the nonintegrated systems does not need to be checked.
If the ABS system malfunctions on the newer system, the brake systems are still
functional.
5. Condition of integrated hydraulic booster/anti-lock system with electronic pump.
With the system fully charged, inspect system for fluid level and leaks.
Reject vehicle if there is insufficient fluid in the reservoir; if there are broken,
kinked or restricted fluid lines or hoses; or if there is any leakage of fluid at the
pump or brake booster, or any of the lines or hoses in the system.
6. Vacuum system operation. Stop engine then depress brake pedal several times to
eliminate all vacuum in the system. Depress pedal with a light foot-force (25
pounds). While maintaining this force on the pedal, start engine and observe if
pedal moves down slightly when engine starts.
Reject vehicle if pedal does not move down slightly as engine is started while force
is on the brake pedal. In full vacuum-equipped vehicles, there is insufficient
vacuum reserve for one full service brake application after engine is stopped.


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7. Condition of vacuum booster power brake system. Reject vehicle if there are
collapsed, cracked, broken, badly chafed or improperly supported hoses and tubes,
loose or broken hose clamps.
F. Inspect for and reject if:
General Specifications - Hydraulic Brakes
1. There is any leakage in the master cylinder, wheel cylinders, or brake calipers.
When checking for leakage in rear wheel cylinders, do not disturb the dust boot.
NOTE: Do not reject for the common dust ball formed on wheel cylinders or for
wetness that may have spread to the backing plate unless it has contaminated the
linings or drums as specified in subdivision D 8 of this section. Consumers should
be advised of this wear so that they will be aware that repair may be needed before
their next inspection. This may not warrant an immediate repair considering the
dual valve master cylinder.
2. Fluid level in master cylinder is below the proper level for the particular vehicle.
3. There is any evidence of a caliper sticking or binding.
Electric Brake System
4. Trailers show an amperage value more than 20% above or 30% below the brake
manufacturer's maximum current rating for each brake.
5. Amp meter shows no reading or indicator is not steady on application and release
of brake controller.
6. Any terminal connections are loose or dirty; wires are broken, frayed, or
unsupported; any single conductor nonstranded wires below the size
recommended by the brake manufacturers are installed.
7. Electrical trailer brakes do not apply automatically when the breakaway safety
switch is operated.
8. Breakaway braking devices are missing or inoperative; cable is frayed or broken.
General Specifications
9. Absence of braking action on any wheel required to have brakes.


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10. There is any leakage in any hydraulic, air, or vacuum lines; hoses have any cracks,
crimps, or restrictions or are abraded, exposing inner fabric; tubing or connections
leak or are crimped, restricted, cracked, or broken; or any valves leak or are
inoperative.
a. Reject the vehicle if the brake hoses or tubing are stretched or extended and do
not allow for suspension movement.
b. Brake tubing and hoses must be:
1) Long and flexible enough to accommodate without damage all normal
motions of the parts to which they are attached;
2) Secured against chaffing, kinking, or other mechanical damage; and
3) Installed in a manner that prevents them from contacting the vehicle's
exhaust system or any other source of high temperatures.
11. Any hydraulic brake tubing has been repaired using a compression fitting.
12. Brakes are not equalized so as to stop the vehicle on a straight line.
13. There is less than 1/5 reserve in actuator travel of the service brake when fully
applied on all hydraulic, mechanical, or power-assisted hydraulic braking systems.
14. When tested on dry, hard, approximately level road free from loose material, at a
speed of 20 miles per hour without leaving a 12-foot wide lane, results in excess
of the following distances are obtained:
(When in doubt about a vehicle's stopping ability, the inspector shall conduct a
road test.)
a. Any motor vehicle (except motorcycles, trucks, and tractor-trucks with
semitrailers attached) four wheel brakes - 25 feet.
b. Any motor vehicle (except motorcycles, trucks, and tractor-trucks with
semitrailers attached) two wheel brakes - 45 feet.
c. All combinations of vehicles - 40 feet
 
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whtbronco

whtbronco

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Thanks Yupster Dog, I kinda figured it'd say something like this "
of the type installed as original standard factory equipment". Gotta love the VA inspection, but it does help keep some vehicles a bit safer for people that don't do any maintenance or repairs at all.
 
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