recommendation

[SimonC]

Greetings,

I just learned that I'll be a dad for a 4th time...

this means that I will no longer be able to use my QC dakota to pull our camping trailer.

after looking at all the options I think the expedition fits my needs.

I currently have a dilemma however and would like anyone's opinion on it.

There's currently two vehicle that are interesting that have almost no pricing difference.

option 1 2004 Eddie Bauer with 106,000KM (not miles) that looks to be in pretty good shape

option 2 2007 Limited with 239,100KM that also looks to be in pretty good shape.

I know there's some history about spark plugs issues and camshaft phaser knocks.

I'm by no means a mechanic but I am a reasonable do it yourself kind of guy.

the 2004 odometer is interesting, but I'm wondering how much of a diff the 6 speed does on the 2007 and I believe it's also the 3 valve 5.4 instead of 2 from the 2004.

All in all, We dont drive around that much (our primary vehicle is 5 years old and only has 70,000km on it)

any comments, opinions or suggestions are more than welcomed

Thanks

Simon

 

[montecarlo31]

Personally I wouldn't touch any 5.4 3V motor with over 100K miles on them. They are suspect at best and expensive to fix. So that means you need to look at the 2004. The 2007 also had the first generation of the 6R75 which is now the 6R80, there have been significant improvements along the way which the 2007 will not have. I hate to say it but at that budget a LS based small block GM SUV is going to be your winner.

 

[SimonC]

I've been looking also at suburban, yukon, etc but for some reason they are very rare. Not sure if the Quebec market didn't like them or people just hold on to them but options are very limited.

 

[montecarlo31]

I've been looking also at suburban, yukon, etc but for some reason they are very rare. Not sure if the Quebec market didn't like them or people just hold on to them but options are very limited.

Most seem to hold on to them longer. They also command quite a bit more at auction for whatever reason, probably ease of repair. I don't think the Expedition is a bad vehicle but they are just expensive to repair. When you look at cam phaser failures, spark plug issues and other pain in the butt problem it's annoying. I can change 8 plugs on my supercharged LQ9 Silverado in 25 minutes, no way you are doing that on any 5.4 or 4.6 motor.

 

[cman1120]

I would have to steer you in the opposite direction, back towards an expedition. For starts, how heavy is the camper in question? And do you know if either of the Expeditions you're looking at are equipped with the HD towing package? Is the 2007 an EL or standard length? Since you said you have a 4th kid on the way, if you want to fit everyone comfortably and be able to carry all your gear inside the truck on trips, I would recommend an EL.

Now I have a 3v 2006 and I have had no complaints. The main things to watch out for are cam phasers and the plugs. They used a two piece plug which would sometimes break on removal. They do make a tool for it. By 2008, all the cam phaser and spark plug problens were fixed, as well as some improvements made to the 6spd transmission. So i would personally look into a 2009 and up EL. These trucks arent the cheapest to fix, but if they have been taken care of they will last.

 

[k9education]

So i would personally look into a 2009 and up EL. These trucks arent the cheapest to fix, but if they have been taken care of they will last.

+1. We started out looking at 07-08 models and found significant mechanical issues with many of them, so ended up looking at 09-12 models instead. If you're hauling a lot of people and gear, the extra 14" in the EL makes a big difference.

 

[SimonC]

So our current camper is about 4500lbs, we have plans to change probably next year if finance allows for a bit bigger. Weight of the size we're looking at is usually between 5500 and 7500lbs.

So the EL models are extremely rare here, I dont think I've seen one with my normal search criteria.

The 2007 model has the hd tow package, leveling suspension, navigation, dvd and second row captain chair which would probably compensate a bit for the lost space VS the EL as we can at least put stuff between the two seats on a trip if required.

On normal trips not related to camping we'd most likely use our first vehicle anyway (dodge journey). If we go camping extra gear can always be in the trailer.

when looking at 2008 and up, results are either outside the target price bracket or have just crazy high odometers.

having seen the tool to remove the broken spark plugs that wasn't too big of a concern for me. Not sure on the price to fix cam phaser and if it's easy to DIY. The one thing that I'd be hoping for the 2007 high mileage one that I saw is that the first "wave" of repairs has already been done (but one can't assume anything).

Thanks

 

[cman1120]

With your current trailer, any expedition with the towing prep package would be able to work, but if you want to upgrade in the next few years like you were saying, the hd tow would be a must. They have both a 4 and 7 pin plug on the rear, vs just a four on the tow prep. Also they have a bigger radiator and additional coolers as well. Can you equip a non hd tow truck to be able to easily tow what an hd tow is rated for? Absolutely. However it won't be legal on paper, so I would personally not look at trucks without the package. The 2nd gen (03-06) are great trucks also, did the 04 that you were looking at come equipped with the hd tow or just tow prep? I know you said the 2007 did, not sure on the 04.

To answer the last question, there is a great writeup somewhere of someone replacing their entire timing system (chain, guides, tensioner, phasers, solenoids ect) and he posted very detailed instructions and steps with it. If I remember right, it didnt cost him more than $1k and I think it was less than that too. If I can find it for you, I will post the link here.

 

[montecarlo31]

I would have to steer you in the opposite direction, back towards an expedition.

Now I have a 3v 2006 and I have had no complaints. The main things to watch out for are cam phasers and the plugs. They used a two piece plug which would sometimes break on removal. They do make a tool for it. By 2008, all the cam phaser and spark plug problens were fixed, as well as some improvements made to the 6spd transmission. So i would personally look into a 2009 and up EL. These trucks arent the cheapest to fix, but if they have been taken care of they will last.

The 2014s are still having cam phaser issues so this problem has NOT been corrected. See TSB 14-0114 and 12-7-10 in addition to a few others. I know of two 13s that have had cam phaser issues and were replaced. When you look a the low volume (38,350 units in 2013 and 44,632 in 2014) the 5.4 is still a troubled motor. I'll have to dig around and find it but I was able to get my hands on a ford service letter that rated the 5.4 to somewhere around 150K miles before overhaul. The 5.3 GM motor is rated at 250K miles.

The bottom line is if he's on a budget the 5.4 is not the motor to own, it will cost you significantly more to repair when comparing to the small block GM (LSx) motor. You can see this in auction values of both.

 

[SimonC]

I'm calling to get the 2004 full VIN number as it's only listed with the first half. UPDATE - This one's already sold .. not really surprised with that low mileage...

I'll be able to pull the window sticker and feature list to see.

Do either normal duty or heavy duty tow package include a brake controller or you just have the harness under the dash to connect one easily ?

how's the fuel consumption between the 6 speed 3rd gen and the 4 speed 2nd gen ?

thanks again

 

[andrew_s]

The 6 speed adds a nice bump in usability, performance and MPGs. It also makes the truck feel smoother and overall better. As for 2v vs 3v honestly both will suffer from the sparkplug issues unless you get certain 2008 or newer (some 2008 use the old multipiece design). I dont believe the mileage is too high on the 2007, but it is something to think about since even with a smart/good driver that maintains you might have some age/use issues with some parts. But again I doubt it if it was maintained that you would have issues. 148k miles isnt low by any means, but for a ford modular it doesnt mean youre near the end of a good vehicles lifespan. But in all honesty Id look for something a bit lower mileage for peace of mind and in case the previous owner wasnt nice on maintenance and use.

As for the brake controller HD tow comes with all the wiring for a brake controller, but not the controller itself.

As for MPGs in the city stock I got 13-15 and 19-22 on the highway. With mods Im getting 16ish city and 21+ highway. Took a loaded trip to the mountains and to the lake both 2.5- 3.5 hour trips and with capacity or near capacity GVWR I was getting 19-20.X MPG with dipping to 18 including city type driving.