Regarding rubberized undercoatings

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JExpedition07

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If you have had a rubberized coating put on your truck (Ziepart, Rattle can, etc) you may want to scrape it off the frame. Lots of new YouTube videos coming out in trucks done, the rubber doesn’t breath and rots the frame out. USE fluid film or an oil based coating, no rubber. I’ve always used fluid film and videos like these confirm that belief in oily based coatings. Just a warning, lots of guys did this and it rotted the truck to dust.
 
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Franklin Jones

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But it looks pretty when you crawl on the ground underneath your trick, and isn’t that the whole point?

As an aside, I don’t have any undercoating, never have, never will. But I’m not sure I buy the premise of “it doesn’t breathe.” Properly painted metal doesn’t need to “breathe”, and it would never rust. In fact, it’s when that paint does breathe via cracks and chips that rust becomes an issue.

Not saying we should all go out and rubberized our undercarriages, just that something else is at play.
 

11henrs

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^yep. No breathing means no oxidation or rust. Poor install or coverage or adhesion to poorly prepped metal makes it trap moisture and rust out.


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TobyU

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There seems to be a new wave of undercoating hating in this country now and I don't buy all of it.

Yes, if you wait too late to do it and it already has rust or its not really dry, you could be doing more harm than leaving it alone, BUT I have had lots of cars with factory or very early on applied undercoating whether it be Ziebart or a limo coach builder after the conversion is finished and these last A LOT longer than ones left factory plain.

The crap we get in spray cans whether it be rubberized or tar like more than likely is a pale substitute for some good old hot style tar undercoating or better professional products.


Let's assume that undercoating we can do with a spray can in on par with spray painting a car with rattle cans!!

Even if you get decent looks after wet sanding and buffing, the durability and sealing of rust protection from spots coming back is nowhere near what a body shop primer, bc/cc will provide.
I assume undercoating is close to same differential.


I am looking for a good sprayer for fluid film or Wool Wax (which I think will be my next product) without paying for the common recommended one they all sell.

I have an old truck with plenty of frame rust but no rot yet.
I have lots of used waste oil too.....1-1= almost free.
 
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JExpedition07

JExpedition07

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I don’t know, if it’s true these vehicles were done from new by Ziebart they had brand new steel to adhere to. What these guys are saying is tar isn’t perfect, it checks and cracks and moisture and salt gets behind it as it does. Then the parts that don’t check or crack will not breath and rust the frame inside out. Maybe this process works better in regions without salty roads since no salt would be trapped.
 
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TobyU

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That can happen. Also untouched frames can fully coat with rust become rough and porous and stay pretty wet/damp.
Climate conditions prob have a lot to do with it too.
Too many variables for me to make my decision based on some YouTube vids of ones that they say the history but I don't know its lifestyle.
 

762mm

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The secret is doing BOTH. I spray painted rocker guard on my old Explorer's frame when it was still very recent (3 years old) and then had it sprayed with stuff akin to liquid film every year. Eventually, the black rocker guard coating started peeling (after like 10 years) and the metal underneath looked either new or with very light surface rust... because the rocker guard coat had soaked in rustproofing oil all these years, lol.


I've sprayed my (new to me) 2014 Expy with the stuff akin to fluid film a few weeks ago, just before winter. In the spring, it's going back to the rustproof place to have a complete wool wax treatment on all the hard metal parts. The guy who runs the joint told me it will seal the frame right and proper for a very looong time.... they need to leave the truck on a lift for a good part of the day, as it takes several coats, hence why they only do it in the spring (too busy now with customers who want regular rustproofing).

The whole treatment is about $150 and I was told that it's the best I can do if I want the Expy's frame and chassis to last 20+ years... hell, why not? When I sold my 1999 Explorer daily driver this summer, it had nearly no rust anywhere and people couldn't believe it was a "20 years of salty roads" vehicle... well worth it!


;)
 
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Plati

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21st Century average person knowledge = "I saw it on a YouTube video, so it must be true" or "all the TV stations are reporting it, so it must be true" or "there are lots of YouTube videos that say this so it must be true".

I have extensively studied corrosion and have a lot of personal experience and I would never put a Ziebart or equivalent coating on a vehicle, for a multitude of reasons. "It doesn't breathe" is not one of them.
 
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TobyU

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21st Century average person knowledge = "I saw it on a YouTube video, so it must be true" or "all the TV stations are reporting it, so it must be true" or "there are lots of YouTube videos that say this so it must be true".

I have extensively studied corrosion and have a lot of personal experience and I would never put a Ziebart or equivalent coating on a vehicle, for a multitude of reasons. "It doesn't breathe" is not one of them.
What have you had the best results with?
 

John Kohler

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Consumer Reports recommends against it, stating "cars today are manufactured with corrosion protection, which makes this added treatment unnecessary". I've also read any undercoating should only be applied when the vehicle is brand new to avoid trapping any corrosion causing materials under the coating. Dealers make more on the undercoating than selling the car.
 

TobyU

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I put little faith into what Consumer Reports says also.
They are statistics our way to General over the entire population of the country and Regional and individual variables simply don't correspond with their results all too often.
Someone living in Tennessee or even Louisville Kentucky woodsy little to no benefit of rust proofing and it could even be detrimental because of holding some sort of moisture in as others have mentioned. The exact same vehicle living in a Northern climate or Michigan let's say would almost certainly have left corrosion damage if any been somehow rust proofed early in its life.
Even simply getting underneath a fairly new or at least just fairly rust free vehicle and spring the heck out of it with Rust-Oleum paint will give you many extra years of Corrosion Protection verses doing nothing in those climates.
Most people in this thread are talking about frame and undercarriage rust but I have seen way too many cars in years past that had fenders and bottoms of doors rust out excessively all the way up to three or four inch from the bottom of the door that were never rust proofed whereas cars that had something minimal even just like one application of Ziebart when they were new or other dealer or franchise named professional rust coating... not have any or hardly any rust on the doors and fenders.
So professional rust proofing might be different than simply saying undercoating.
In Rust prone regions, you could take a car when new and professionally rust preventive only one side of the vehicle and leave the other side Factory stock and I can guarantee you 10 to 12 years down the road it would be far more rust on the side left untreated.
Things like krown and New Hampshire oil undercoating will definitely help more than hurt in salty states.
Maybe these people aren't lumping these style in with traditional undercoating. These are oil-based more like fluid film or wool wax but they still coat and make the under side of the vehicle look different so many people refer to them as undercoating.
I don't care what Consumer Reports or anyone else says about these types of products, they will extend the life of the underside of your vehicle and keep things looking much better for much longer.
 

Plati

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I don't think you can go wrong putting a Krown like product on a new or even an older vehicle. I augment that with Fluid Film and other sprays. I hand apply grease in certain locations. I flush with water beforehand and let thoroughly dry. I plug the big holes in my rockers. I remove drain plugs from bottom of doors. Its all experimental at this stage.

This is my opinion based on my experience, and I could be missing the mark in some of all areas. I've never used Ziebart like coating. I'm only a few years into this subject matter. I also live in the salt belt. I'll be interested to track progress over the next 15 years that I will own my vehicle.
 

mjp2

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The Canadian military did research on rust prevention for their equipment and found Corrosion Free to be the most effective option. This report appears to be the most thorough I could find:

http://cradpdf.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc53/p526285.pdf

I started reading up on rust prevention after crawling under my truck for a recent diff fluid swap and noticing how bad things were getting. I knew my rockers were going but was surprised by how much else was starting to rust. Stumbled on this stuff, ordered it, and applied it about a week ago in my driveway.

Time will tell what impact it has but the application went smoothly as long as I kept the product warm. Applying in cold temps made the stuff in the bottle gel a bit thicker than the spray gun liked.

I'll give it another coating in the summer and will keep to that schedule going forward. Went through about half a gallon coating the underside of the Expedition.
 

TobyU

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Well, when people put more faith in anecdotal reports than independent consumer organizations it's really not a debate worth engaging.
That is actually being very close-minded.
A lot of people do that because it seems to be the easy way out. Instead of doing lots of research on your own and even testing things on your own it's easier just to go to some well known source or "authority" on something and go by the recommendations.
You just must be aware that this does not guarantee the best results. It also does not even guarantee that you will have the same results as the reporting organization because as I said earlier they are taking into account everyone from all 50 states. Like when they give reliability ratings and stuff like that they are giving them for the entire group.
There are some Extremely low and extremely high that are all figured into the averages. What if your personal conditions or area are one of the ones in extremely high or extremely low result and you would not even know it from one of these reporting agencies.
For instance when you look up that the average lifespan of a new car battery now is only three to four years. That sounds terrible and actually it is compared to older ones but that is every car battery sold in this country in all locations.
They don't break it down state for state or by climate conditions to let you know that a battery in blistering hot conditions it's probably only two years and batteries in super cold climates but they're bad or not get replaced earlier to. Then you have the batteries in more moderate climates that make it eight or nine years before they end up being replaced.
So to just blindly or faithfully go to the self-proclaimed expert and say the battery is going to last three to four years is not really that accurate for each individual.
You should not put all your faith into one or several anecdotal stories on the internet either but you should certainly give them just as much faith and credit especially when you can continually find similar stories.
But we are free to believe whatever we want to believe. I don't know what climate you live in but I can guarantee you that cars in Southwest Ohio will be cleaner and less rust on the bottom of the doors and the fenders and wheel wells , and trunk area, and less frame and Chassis degradation on a vehicle that is somehow rust proved, coated, or even undercoating with tar style or rubberized spray cans early on when it's clean vs cars that are left Factory original and untouched.
It's probably not that way in Arizona, not that way and lots of California and not that way in Louisville Kentucky but I have enough decades of experience being underneath and working on and around cars to knowl that is absolutely true in this climate that I'm familiar with.
So your mileage may vary but Consumer Reports is not the authority on rust protection. Neither are the companies that sell rust prevention products or techniques as you can't put full faith into their information and recommendations because they have a big vested interest in selling products.
And by the way, that's why a lot of people are here or end up on forums such as this. To gather opinions and that anecdotal evidence to use in their decision-making process.
I guess we have the same problem sometimes in normal mechanical repair issues. It's just not super well evident or posted the exact dealer recommendation or manufacturer recommended way to fix something. When it is, there are people that will argue it there's that's the only way to do it. Or that it's the correct way so that's the way you should do it.
So some people go to forums just to find out how to fix something and other people go to find different ways or the easiest or cheapest way to fix something.
Arguing with someone that the book prescribed way is better or correct vs else's way who has done the repair 25 times is is not only silly, it's closed minded and defeats the purpose of community forums and open communication.
But that is certainly how some people roll.
Then we have the other group of people that take lots of time to make up and post life hacks at they call them. There are entire videos on Facebook YouTube and everywhere else about this and some people greatly enjoy watching them even though they've never even had the need for some of these so-called hacks.
You see things and go wow. That's neat and works a lot better. Then the naysayers come along and try their best to shoot holes and the batter easier way.
Maybe they just hate change. Nope. That's not it because I hate change but I'm always open for something that's better or makes my life easier or save me money.
Would have to have some psychologists here to really get into it but I'm sure there's some traits involved and some things we could call it. You know, Society has to have a name for everything today.
I think it's just because some people have such a self-important attitude that they know they, or their way is right and don't even want to consider anyone having a better way or even consider Thinking Out of the Box because their box works just fine.
Doing something differently or even acknowledging it works would be saying someone else is better or smarter or out did them.
Maybe it's something like this or maybe it's some other type of Personality quirk or trait.
I don't know. I'm just pondering. That's really not my wheelhouse.
But observing people, their actions, pointing out what I don't like or what I think is messed up in the world, and expressing my opinions on how it could or should be changed... That is my wheelhouse.
I think our should stop rusting. That's my opinion. I think they should stop pre-treating the roads with that salt brine crap.
I think they should stop using salt on the roads or at least so much of it. It doesn't get that bad in Southwest Ohio. Let's go back to putting sand on the road.
They destroyed the cars and the roads much faster but they like that. It's what I call spinning the money wheel.
All the groups that organization and Society in general and the country in general wants to keep us spinning it.
Companies that sell salt want them to use all the salt, the plow truck operators want to make the money for working overtime dispensing the salt, the contractors need job security for Paving the roads every two years. Car washes with the increased revenue from the bad conditions. Vehicle manufacturers don't want cars to stay nice for too long because they want to sell new ones. Rust preventative and coating companies I want this all to happen so they can sell products to people who don't believe consumer reports that want to try to protect their cars longer.
Then there's those weirdos that want the roads to be safer and less slippery so they are soft proponents too. You know, the ones that want to just jump in their car and head out in the worst winter conditions and drive like it's a sunny day in July.
How dare they have to be inconvenienced to leave a little early and drive slower and cautiously to get where they're going or GOSH..... Limit their driving for a day or two until the sun melts most of it.
But I digress... Wait , did I already do that? I probably shouldn't go on. I really need a nap.
Dum da da!!!
 
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Muddy Bean

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I’ve said this before a million times but I get my trucks Krowned every year and I have zero rust issues. Literally zero. My 1998 Land Cruiser with just under 300,000 miles on it looked like this underneath before I sold it. Obviously the oil spray is still wet so you can see that blackens the undercarriage somewhat but I’m telling you, zero rust. I attached some photos. They drill holes in all of your body panels and mist a fog of oil inside them as well as coat your frame and engine compartment. They remove you taillights and get inside the rear body panels and liftgate. They even drilled inside my power running boards and sprayed those as well. It works. Krown and Corrosion free were tested by the Canadian military and yes corrosion free was a clingier formula but that isn’t what you want inside your body panels. You want a flowing misting oil that costs everything and runs down just like water would to displace any moisture finding its way to the bottom of you body panels and seams to prevent rust. It works.

5e4fb99ab7278953dc228f41d0128016.jpg363a87f3b8ae374d28900f86ca238668.jpg1594217dd80eabea83090359e918c099.jpg5efdbc60123505ca93b33303914df681.jpg0e6457ab90443d426696dc3a5370a23a.jpg


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TobyU

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I think I like the look of the crown being black better than the corrosion free. I might have to look into buying some of that. I forget if that's one of the ones that's available for do-it-yourself or not.
But remember. We don't need to do it because Consumer Reports says it is unnecessary.
Go look underneath other vehicles of the same year in your same area and see what they look like!!
 

762mm

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Consumer Reports is as credible as CNN. They've made some very questionable claims over the years, to say the least.

It's a private entity that sells out to the highest bidder, kind of like the Kelley Blue Book of Car Values being owned by Autotrader and other used car resellers, lol!

:rolleyes:

 
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TobyU

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Patently absurd. That pretty much explains it.
Back until around 1995 or so in Ada had Fair values. Ever since then and especially with Kelley Blue Book becoming the number one source values are extrapolated to ridiculous levels.
Also, our entire industry of dealers and used cars Lots in this country is absurd. A car is worth what a car is worth no matter who is selling it and no matter who is buying it! But car dealers have what I call car dealer-itis.
They believe they deserve more money for simply buying that car at the auction and having it delivered or driving it to their lot.
It's absolute Bizarro world but that's how things work and the majority of American people are dumb enough to fall for it and pay more money for the simple convenience.
 
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