Rocker Panels

[Plati]

You can justify it anyway you want but I will never support it! Especially since rocker panels are not structural and the running boards on these vehicles probably offer more protection and the factory rockers but aren't even required. The delusion is the fact the government thinks it should be able to legislate safety.. and the bigger delusion is the people who have bought into it over the decades!
It's not a conspiracy theory it's a fact of too much government regulation and control in some people's opinions... one that I certainly share.

It's about like the argument for supporting mandatory seat belt usage to say that someone could hurt other people because they weren't wearing their seatbelt or they could become a vegetable and become a burden on society etc, etc, etc.
People who want to support regulations and restrictions will jump through any hoops and justify them by any means they can because they have an agenda. Just like people who like me, are against almost everything that's regulatory and over restrictive will jump through hoops the other direction to do the opposite.
The good point is that the people who support everything aren't getting by with anything by supporting it or doing it. They can live their happy little safety freak lives all they want. I'll be over here circumventing every regulation and law that I can that I don't agree with and telling others how to do it... Whatever it takes. Because THAT is what makes me feel better.
Sometimes I want to be a fan of states rights but other times it ****** me off that what you can do legally in one state will make you a criminal if you cross the state line! It is total ******** in one way of looking at it.

I said many years ago that one of the things I'm considering having put on my headstone when I die is -
I win!

Some people would think that's funny because no he didn't he's dead. But yes I did! I lived my life exactly how I wanted ...told anyone to piss off that I wanted to and only followed the few rules and laws but I absolutely had to but overall my ratio was much much much more in my favor so I call that a big win.

MrToby's back ... and still confused!!
As usual ... I respect you having an opinion, just don't respect your actual opinion.
Which is probably partly because you didnt read what I typed and then ran off spouting things that have always bothered you but are unrelated to my observation.

As far as I can tell ... rusted out rocker panels do not endanger anybody.
If they did ... I would not drive my beloved 2003 Expo.

 

[TobyU]

MrToby's back ... and still confused!!
As usual ... I respect you having an opinion, just don't respect your actual opinion.
Which is probably partly because you didnt read what I typed and then ran off spouting things that have always bothered you but are unrelated to my observation.

As far as I can tell ... rusted out rocker panels do not endanger anybody.
If they did ... I would not drive my beloved 2003 Expo.

Not really. It's good you don't respect my opinion because we're not required to do that. That's what allows us to keep our individualism and rights intact
You open up the conversation too much broader things than just rocker panels, well actually someone else did I Believe by mentioning Florida I think...
There was a comment about all kinds of crazy cracked windshields or dangerous looking Vehicles driving around and that's when you commented about not supporting people being able to do things like that because if their radio dangerous vehicle slid into someone else and killed them then that's an issue for you.
I think I correctly inferred that she would like the government to prevent people from being able to do those thanks that might put those other people in jeopardy .
That seemed pretty clear to me.

I simply will never let a chance go by to spout my dislike for the actions of people who support and spout their desire for safety regulations that control and restrict people from doing things because they feel they are dangerous.
I rarely support people, government, society forcing people to make it safe for others.

I'm of the mindset that if you want to be safe it's your responsibility to make things safer for you or your family.

So my comments were strictly in the broader sense and not disagreeing with you or jumping your crap about rocker panels not being structural or a reason for an inspection failure because I think we both agree on that matter.

 

[Aspen03]

I'd just move. Apparently it's a scam to get older vehicles off the road. This is not a safety issue. It's complete bullcrap.

I would certainly win though! Regardless of what I had to download off the internet, cut and paste so I would have a receipt to show them that said OEM. That description text can be found anywhere.
All pencil pushing geek rules are meant to be circumvented.

As I read the OP I thought to myself I'd move before I went to that trouble...had to lol at that!

Fwiw inspection isn't all bad. I've seen some extremely poor vehicles on the road, seeing the street through the floorboards and tires that have less rubber than a set of sticks. I would say they are overstepping in this instance. It is unreasonable to demand a $7k repair for an aging vehicle for something that isn't simply untrue. The outer portion of fbe rockers flex when you put your weight on them stepping into the vehicle. No way that is providing any meaningful structural integrity. Now if things are rusted in 6 inches under the carpet that is a little different. Get hit hard enough while making other poor decisions and it's not unreasonable to have a vehicle break in half. Albeit rare, it does happen and I would gather it is much more easily done with significant parts of the structure rusted through. It doesn't sound like that is the case here however. Just an overzealous inspection with out of this world demands by specifying OEM only. There are plenty of shops who do fine work on insurance jobs all over the world who don't use oem and 99% of the time turn out just fine.

You'll never win the argument on whether it's right or wrong w the inspector which is again why I'd just move. F 'em I say!

 

[TobyU]

As I read the OP I thought to myself I'd move before I went to that trouble...had to lol at that!

Fwiw inspection isn't all bad. I've seen some extremely poor vehicles on the road, seeing the street through the floorboards and tires that have less rubber than a set of sticks. I would say they are overstepping in this instance. It is unreasonable to demand a $7k repair for an aging vehicle for something that isn't simply untrue. The outer portion of fbe rockers flex when you put your weight on them stepping into the vehicle. No way that is providing any meaningful structural integrity. Now if things are rusted in 6 inches under the carpet that is a little different. Get hit hard enough while making other poor decisions and it's not unreasonable to have a vehicle break in half. Albeit rare, it does happen and I would gather it is much more easily done with significant parts of the structure rusted through. It doesn't sound like that is the case here however. Just an overzealous inspection with out of this world demands by specifying OEM only. There are plenty of shops who do fine work on insurance jobs all over the world who don't use oem and 99% of the time turn out just fine.

You'll never win the argument on whether it's right or wrong w the inspector which is again why I'd just move. F 'em I say!

But the problem is they treat all vehicles the same and you know some of these inspectors don't know their butt from a hole in the ground.
Let's be realistic, a unibody vehicle with rusted out rockers is somewhat structurally compromised. I wouldn't call it dangerous and wouldn't worry about it whatsoever personally but it is weaker than it was.
Now an Expedition or truck that is a body-on-frame vehicle really could care less about the Rockers for strength or structural support especially in a side on crash.
As I said the running boards or nerf bars that lots of them have might provide more support then the factory rockers but it's all irrelevant because you have the strongest part of the vehicle, the frame, just a few inches in.

 

[TobyU]

I missed this part so here is our fundamental difference of opinions on life.

" far as I can tell ... rusted out rocker panels do not endanger anybody.
If they did ... I would not drive my beloved 2003 Expo."

See, I would certainly still drive that 2003 Expo even if I could tell that rusted-out rockers could endanger people.

I feel we have to be careful how far we let the safety precautions go and I feel they've gone too far already.

It was just a few years ago I heard a lot of people clamoring about this huge SUVs and trucks being too dangerous and too large to be on the road! Their argument was what if one of these big Behemoth crashes into by daughter and her little Honda and kills her?
My instant thought was then if you're concerned about that maybe you should put your daughter in one of the big expeditions!

So this is why I say we must be careful. I will always be a fan and a supporter of let people who want to be safe and protect themselves do so on their own.

I rarely support people forcing others to make the world safer
for the first people wanting to safety.

I guess it's just a fundamental difference on the way we see the world. It is even been called Selfish. Titles and names mean little but I can see that but it's also easy to see how wanting everyone or others to cater to you to make your world a safer place is being selfish because you're selfish for your own safety and things being automatically safer for you without you having to take any extra precautions, spend money or put out any effort.
Selfishness always seems to work both ways.

I have found that the older I get though I care less! When you're young and have your entire life to live it really ****** you off that they're going to be shoving things down your throat and force you to do things for what seems like forever.
As you get older, you realize that you're probably most likely going to be able to live out the rest of your little existence doing whatever the hell you want to do!
Disregarding most of the things you want to disregard. Not wearing your seatbelt except when you choose to, speeding if you want to, turning right on red even though there's a sign. Whatever floats your boat is what I'm saying.

I guess they're just different ways of approaching life.
People have said for decades that if you don't do the good things you're going to get hurt or killed.
Well after you've been living your life the way you want for over half a century and you still haven't gotten hurt or killed it seems that statistically based based on past experiences and the predictability of future occurrences, that if you change nothing and your actions or life ... that you will probably experience close to the same that you have in the past.
So there's that.

 

[Aspen03]

But the problem is they treat all vehicles the same and you know some of these inspectors don't know their butt from a hole in the ground.
Let's be realistic, a unibody vehicle with rusted out rockers is somewhat structurally compromised. I wouldn't call it dangerous and wouldn't worry about it whatsoever personally but it is weaker than it was.
Now an Expedition or truck that is a body-on-frame vehicle really could care less about the Rockers for strength or structural support especially in a side on crash.
As I said the running boards or nerf bars that lots of them have might provide more support then the factory rockers but it's all irrelevant because you have the strongest part of the vehicle, the frame, just a few inches in.

I agree, the problem is the world gets all pissed off when you treat anyone or any random object differently than another even if it makes logical/statistical sense. You'd be discriminating against the Subaru's, Dodge's or Kia's of the world in some way I imagine and all hell would break loose.

 

[TobyU]

I agree, the problem is the world gets all pissed off when you treat anyone or any random object differently than another even if it makes logical/statistical sense. You'd be discriminating against the Subaru's, Dodge's or Kia's of the world in some way I imagine and all hell would break loose.

Yep. Look how Jeep spent well over a decade trying to convince people that their unibody construction was better for an off-road vehicle! That's funny right there.

 

[x1050er]

Frosty. No, the body shop did no modification to the new rocker panels for my 2008.

Or, at least that was what they told me.....

 

[Frosty]

Frosty. No, the body shop did no modification to the new rocker panels for my 2008.

Or, at least that was what they told me.....

I guess that's my answer then. Thanks a lot. This should save me a ton of money.

I guess I started a huge discussion. Sorry about that. But while I am here maybe I should do some more explaining. I am a certified auto body technician in SK Canada and I bought this 2009 Expedition from the insurance company because they had written it off as a total loss. (hit a deer). Minimal damage - 2 hrs to repair cracked front bumper and 4 hrs repair on dent in drivers door. In my opinion it should not have been totaled so I thought I was getting a steal of a deal. In our province (Saskatchewan - SK for short) they claim that we are on the leading edge for traffic safety. We just had major legislation changes in Jan 2021 that took effect which is why all of these rules. I did not realize the extent of the rules before going for my inspection. The rust is very minimal. You can't see it unless you get down underneath. The changes to the rules are such that I was required to take the vehicle for a structural and a mechanical inspection with the structural being first. I had no idea the scam that was involved. I was required to have my initial inspection of the structural before doing any work to the vehicle. I took it to the inspection assuming that it would just pass the structural inspection the way it is since I was told that they were only concerned with structure and not cosmetics. First scam - the inspection took 2 hours and I was charged $472.00. Second scam - inner and outer rocker panels need to be changed on both sides according to OEM specifications. Third scam - codes for ABS and RCM need to be diagnosed and cleared even though there are no warning lights on the dash. Forth scam - even though I am a certified auto body technician I need to have a body shop do the work or at least oversee it. Apparently for me to do my own work would be a conflict of interest. Fifth scam - I need to take it for another inspection before any filler or undercoat is applied to inspect the welds. And I will need to pay for that inspection as well.

I did get a body shop to give me an estimate and the total came to over $16,000.00 because they are required to use OEM and the parts alone are over $7,000.00.

As I said before we are apparently on the leading edge of the new regulations that I believe every jurisdiction will eventually get to. I suspect the agenda is get as many of the older vehicles off the road as possible.

Sorry for the long and boring response.

 

[Trainmaster]

You live in a Socialist country. Many of us in the States are being crushed by the same thing. It doesn't take too much intellect to realize all this nonsense isn't about "traffic safety".

Here, and probably there too, those with the ability who aren't beaten down would scam any way they could to circumvent what they feel is an illogical demand. When regulations are viewed as absurd, they are routinely disregarded, creating a population of "criminals".

Ultimately and simply much of this nonsense is just another tax on the working class.