Rough Idle Advice

[RustyOval]

I have an 09 with ~170K miles on it. Sometimes at idle it will idle rough and smell smokey, almost diesel like. I put new Ford plugs in at just under 100k miles and new VCT solinoids last fall. Any thoughts on this?

 

[RustyOval]

I should have added that sometimes my Expy will die out during the rough idle and doesnt always start right back up. I get no warning lights, no check engine light.

 

[jkayca]

So many things can cause rough idling. Kind of surprise no light has popped up since the truck stalls. Maybe check to see if the computer has any pending codes stored.

 

[bobmbx]

I should have added that sometimes my Expy will die out during the rough idle and doesnt always start right back up. I get no warning lights, no check engine light.

I would suggest the idle air controller as a culprit, but I'm not sure the 09's were using them. For us old schoolers, a bad idle always meant "IAC" first.

 

[JExpedition07]

No idle air controller (IAC) valve on the 2005+ 5.4 3V Tritons, it’s a fly by wire electric throttle body...no need for one. Check for codes anyway, could be a coil or very well a sticking injector if it’s smokey.

 

[RustyOval]

Thanks everyone. I am stopping by my mechanics in the morning. He told me on the phone that sometimes a code will show up even if no check engine light or other errors are shown. My mechanic is leaning towards cam phasers. Ill have more info in the morning. This mechanic is very good on these motors as he has one himself in his truck that he recently pulled out to repair. Ill keep you posted....

I experimented tonight on my way to work. If I keep on the gas a little to have the RPMs stay in the 1,500 range there is no issue. Yes, I need to brake with my left in order to do this at stops.

 

[JExpedition07]

It’s very possible your issue is not related to the camphasers but he may find something with his scan tools. Hopefully easier than that. Camphasers are never the issue, it’s oil flow that causes it. If that’s the case it’ll need a whole tear down and new timing chains, tensioners, guides, oil pump, pan drop and clean out.

 

[JExpedition07]

Also did you use Ford OEM VCT solenoids? Your symptoms are classic VCT solenoid failure if you are stalling at stop lights with engine in drive.

 

[RustyOval]

Also did you use Ford OEM VCT solenoids? Your symptoms are classic VCT solenoid failure if you are stalling at stop lights with engine in drive.

Yes, the VCT solenoids were from my local ford dealer. They are not very expensive... got the seals at the same time.

 

[jkayca]

I watched a video of a guy who's F150 was experiencing similar problems to the OP. For quick temporary fix he pulled the electrical connector to the VCT solenoids. Truck was able to run but obviously threw a code because the system disconnect.

 

[RustyOval]

I am going to try this and see if at least the truck is more drivable. Great video, thank you!

 

[jkayca]

I am going to try this and see if at least the truck is more drivable. Great video, thank you!

No problem. Let us know how it goes.

 

[RustyOval]

Suddenly the rough idle is gone. I did nothing. My mechanic said he thinks it is a timing/oil pressure issue. He suggests that repairing the timing system and oil pump like he did on his 5.4 may resolve my problem, but then something else may go bad considering I have almost 170,000 miles on this truck. He said if he does the motor work, then the tranny may go next or the differentials .... he told me I may want to consider just getting rid of it.

Wifey and I are taking a look at 2018's as I am not sure I would trust this Expy to pull our camper on another 2,000 mile round trip next summer. Putting in a new motor would cost more than the truck is worth. Too bad, it is an Eddie Bauer with HD tow and captains chairs ... somewhat of a unicorn. Dang.

 

[JExpedition07]

Hmmm. He might be right of course but....With a bad engine with failing phasers you’ll only get a few grand for the truck. Fixed you’ll get a lot more. Well worth the $1,500 timing job. I’d either fix and drive or fix and sell. Unless you were planning on trade in value and just lying to the dealer.

Also, oil pressure issues *generally* don’t disappear. If you have an oil pressure issue or failing oil pump it doesn’t just “disappear” one day.

 

[762mm]

Rough idle / stalling / no start + no codes = fuel pump pressure issue.

Check your fuel pressure first and foremost. My money says that your fuel pump is on its' way out. The timing components would throw a code right away if it got that bad.

It would also explain why symptoms disappeared magically - the electric fuel pump will sometimes give it one last big breath of life before it quits completely. Mechanical pumps (like your oil pump) don't do that... if they're bad, they only get worse.


Final tip: replace the fuel pump ONLY with a Motorcraft unit if you want long-term reliability.

 

[RustyOval]

Rough idle / stalling / no start + no codes = fuel pump pressure issue.

Check your fuel pressure first and foremost. My money says that your fuel pump is on its' way out. The timing components would throw a code right away if it got that bad.

It would also explain why symptoms disappeared magically - the electric fuel pump will sometimes give it one last big breath of life before it quits completely. Mechanical pumps (like your oil pump) don't do that... if they're bad, they only get worse.


Final tip: replace the fuel pump ONLY with a Motorcraft unit if you want long-term reliability.

Thanks for the response. I didnt think of this, but I did replace the fuel pump about 30K ago with a Ford pump. Still that is a good suggestion; however, we traded off the 09 on a 2018 after much thought. The dealer will be taking the "Blue Goose" to an auto auction dur to the milage and the exhaust manifolds alone making it a poor investment to keep IMO.

 

[RustyOval]

Hmmm. He might be right of course but....With a bad engine with failing phasers you’ll only get a few grand for the truck. Fixed you’ll get a lot more. Well worth the $1,500 timing job. I’d either fix and drive or fix and sell. Unless you were planning on trade in value and just lying to the dealer.

Also, oil pressure issues *generally* don’t disappear. If you have an oil pressure issue or failing oil pump it doesn’t just “disappear” one day.

My mechanic quoted me $2,200 for the timing repair plus more for an oil pump .... this is what he did for his 5.4 (high pressure oil pump). Add in another $1,000 minimum for exhaust manifold replacement and I am at the trade in value for the 09 as it sits.

As I stated in another reponse, we decided to trade in the Blue Goose on a 2018. It was a sad day as the Blue goose served us well, but to us is not worth throwing more money at.

Thank you for all your responses and BTW I only got $3,500 trade in and I had to push for that and no I did not lie about the engine issues. The 09 was in good shape otherwise....

 

[JExpedition07]

Congrats on the new truck!! Yes sometimes it’s better to move on. My 07’ Eddie Bauer was similar to yours I think. I picked it up for cheap in pretty sorry shape, both manifolds leaked and it didn’t sound healthy. I replaced both exhaust manifolds (parts cost $250 + $500 in labor for a total of $750 for both new manifolds). Fixing that along with a general tune up took care of all the noises. I had to have the transmission repaired for almost $1,000 last week too. Then in spring I am doing the timing job. All in all still cheaper than buying a new truck in my case. Behind the issues it was a gem, frame and chassis has little to no corrosion and the interior is mint. Someone will buy it cheap and fix her back up so long as it’s got good bones.

 

[762mm]

Congrats on the new truck!! Yes sometimes it’s better to move on. My 07’ Eddie Bauer was similar to yours I think. I picked it up for cheap in pretty sorry shape, both manifolds leaked and it didn’t sound healthy. I replaced both exhaust manifolds (parts cost $250 + $500 in labor for a total of $750 for both new manifolds). Fixing that along with a general tune up took care of all the noises. I had to have the transmission repaired for almost $1,000 last week too. Then in spring I am doing the timing job. All in all still cheaper than buying a new truck in my case. Behind the issues it was a gem, frame and chassis has little to no corrosion and the interior is mint. Someone will buy it cheap and fix her back up so long as it’s got good bones.

Interesting. They say those 6 speed F150/Expedition transmissions are pretty much "bulletproof" when not used for a commercial / heavy towing purpose.

What did you have to fix on yours, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[RustyOval]

Congrats on the new truck!! Yes sometimes it’s better to move on. My 07’ Eddie Bauer was similar to yours I think. I picked it up for cheap in pretty sorry shape, both manifolds leaked and it didn’t sound healthy. I replaced both exhaust manifolds (parts cost $250 + $500 in labor for a total of $750 for both new manifolds). Fixing that along with a general tune up took care of all the noises. I had to have the transmission repaired for almost $1,000 last week too. Then in spring I am doing the timing job. All in all still cheaper than buying a new truck in my case. Behind the issues it was a gem, frame and chassis has little to no corrosion and the interior is mint. Someone will buy it cheap and fix her back up so long as it’s got good bones.

Yes, the bones of the "Blue Goose" were good. The interior was mint. Everything worked. The dealer told me they would be sending the 09EB to an auction, hopefully someone will give it the love it deserves. I worked it hard towing that 30" camper. Oh and the 2018 Platinum ... wow.