Thinking about getting a newer Expedition

[uscgmac]

I currently have a 02 XLT with the 4.6L. Thinking about upgrading to maybe a 2nd gen with 5.4L 4x4. Maybe a 05 to 07 or maybe even a 3rd gen 08 or 09. What opinions do people have on the 5.4L 3V motor. I keep seeing reviews to stay away from it due to cam phaser failures and other problems. How is the reliability in these motors and what should I look out for. Should I even bother or look elsewhere like a Tahoe or Suburban with the vortex motor. Thanks.

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[and0r]

crown vic 5-0 stroker
never look back

 

[1955moose]

Stay away from 05-07, too much of a chance of motor problems. Early 08 on up has been the way to go. Got rid of the 2 piece spark plugs, and they seem to have less phaser problems. As recommended here, fire it up listen for any ticking/clacking, if you hear it walk away. If possible see if the owner has service records. Real important to see oil change intervals every 5,000 miles or so. Also crawl under it and up front, look for rust. When you find a good one, pay a non related shop to do full inspection, including codes checks, and bumper to bumper check. Good luck.

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[uscgmac]

Stay away from 05-07, too much of a chance of motor problems. Early 08 on up has been the way to go. Got rid of the 2 piece spark plugs, and they seem to have less phaser problems. As recommended here, fire it up listen for any ticking/clacking, if you hear it walk away. If possible see if the owner has service records. Real important to see oil change intervals every 5,000 miles or so. Also crawl under it and up front, look for rust. When you find a good one, pay a non related shop to do full inspection, including codes checks, and bumper to bumper check. Good luck.

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Thanks, I can do a good visual inspection and physical inspection on my own. I have a code reader with live data and know how to read FFD, fuel trims and O2 sensors and past codes. I can check for body rot, bad ball joints, bad leaky seals, heater core problems, fluids and brakes and so on but the engine internals with the cam phasers failing is my biggest fear. I can listen to the motor for the clanking and ticking on cold starts and so on. Just afraid of the unknown., What I can't see. I know it's a gamble but I do love the platform of the Expys.

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[1955moose]

Sounds like your all set. If you can get one from dry climate. Your bio just says US, so that can be good or bad. Buying a used car is always a gamble. But seeing records, asking the right questions, and doing what you know, you've got a leg up on most. Good luck, I'm sure we'll see pics of your new big girl soon!

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[JExpedition07]

Camphasers are always quiet at cold idle. You want to take it for a ride and then listen to it hot, if it clanks then you have an issue. You will know it’s the one when you go through a few and find that one.

A few years back I bought my 07’ because it was the one....Started up and took it for a joyride. No ticks, clunks, clanks...interior looked brand new seats never looked to be sat on. Looked at a few others as well but this one stood out, all you could hear were injectors and it was clean. Also documentation is good, I have all the documents on this truck. Bought it, been good with it since.

 

[Adieu]

'09 and up are good to great, depending on how cheap or not gasoline is in your area.

Avoid the ones with original 2-part plugs (07 and some 08 iirc), never-ever-ever wash your engine bay, and you'll be good.

Older Tahoes are overpriced, cheap Suburbans are all thrashed n trashed Uber vehicles, and newer GM trucks lose a tranny every 90k miles reliably (I knew a few limo guys on their FOURTH transmission!)

 

[lonestarjeff]

I've had the same thought for awhile, & even considered another gen-1 4x4(currently have a 2000 4x2)... if I couldn't bring myself to pay the price for a gen-3. I don't really need 4x4 anymore, but I still miss having it.

Part of the problem for me looking at 08 or 09 would be the bells & whistles & improved ride would ruin me looking at another gen-1.

 

[uscgmac]

Thanks for the info. I love the Expy platform because you get a big bang for the buck on used ones. I use my Expy as a second vehicle. I have a new Grand Cherokee and use my Expy for hauling bigger things and commuting to work here and there. I also use it as my fishing gear truck and throw my kayaks in top. It's my all around beat on vehicle even though I keep it immaculate. The GC is my family car and weekend driver. Love having a spare vehicle that i don't worry about getting dinged up. Wife has her own car too but likes the idea of the spare truck. As my 02 starts to age I would like to upgrade but don't want a beat up one. Really leaning towards finding a really clean 08 to 10.

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[Machete]

Keep in mind when you listen to the engine that the cam phasers, guides and chains may not be rattling right now but....

 

[and0r]

does the cam phaser lock-out actually work?
anyone with any experience with these?

concerned about fuel economy and/or performance

not worried about tensioner or guides,
probably fixed those on the 09+ anyway

 

[JExpedition07]

Camphaser lockouts do not work, it’s masking an issue of oil supply. You also are giving up power and torque, it’s a hack job that doesn’t fix anything.

I did the spark plugs on my 07’ myself and put in the updated Motorcraft SP-546 plugs. None broke on removal and the job was a walk in the park.

 

[and0r]

Camphaser lockouts do not work, it’s masking an issue of oil supply. You also are giving up power and torque, it’s a hack job that doesn’t fix anything.

I did the spark plugs on my 07’ myself and put in the updated Motorcraft SP-546 plugs. None broke on removal and the job was a walk in the park.

oil supply? isn't that the point of locking out the phaser?
unless the phaser operation itself also provides a pumping mechanism for oil (which i doubt) then lockout should actually work, its the performance of the engine within the locked state which is a mystery here and requires actual experience

probably increases fuel economy while sacrificing upper-range performance (decresed power)

 

[JExpedition07]

oil supply? isn't that the point of locking out the phaser
the lockout does actually work, its the performance of the engine within the locked state which is a mystery here and requires actual experience

No it does not work. The camphasers go bad because of low oil pressure. The top end starves for oil and this is the symptom. If you don’t fix the oil supply issue whether it be tensioners or oil pump the camshafts, cam-caps, and entire valvetrain will get eaten up and the engine will be destroyed. Please don’t spread false information if you are unfamiliar with the 3V OHC engines. Lockouts don’t fix anything but a symptom, it’s like taking Advil for a broken leg and not receiving treatment.

 

[1955moose]

Listen to JExpedition, he speaks the truth. The biggest reason the phasers fail is a gasket behind them goes bad. When the gasket starts leaking, oil that normally feeds the phaser, loses oil pressure. Using the lockout part your talking about, will kill about 40 or more horsepower, due to the fact your camshafts will stay in a retarded position. The advancing of the cams are what give the 24 valve motor the pull in torque and horsepower thrust. I can't see any mileage increase, to the contrary, by not advancing like it's supposed to, your mileage will most likely drop, because your having to press harder on throttle. Bottom line, if your phasers aren't phasing, it's teardown time. Parts alone are about $900.00. chains, guides, phasers, gaskets, updated oil pump, etc.. Hope that sheds some light on this.

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[rjdelp7]

The 5.4l 3V has an awful reputation. Vehicles with this engine, have a lower book value. Plenty of videos on Youtube. One mechanic claims, the only true fix is engine replacement. The main issue, is bad/lack of maintenance. This is a reason, I kept my 1st gen so long(they last). The new V6 was also a turn off in 2015, when I was looking.

 

[Adieu]

Some dude on the internet said it, IT MUST BE TRUE!!!

Buy a Chevy, but look into a tranny shop with a good loyalty programme... maybe "collect 4 stickers and your fifth transmission is FREE"???


PS *not* from some dude on the internet. Know a lot of transportation industry guys with Suburbans, same ol story each time... don't believe me? Find a local haunt of livery drivers and go ask.

 

[Machete]

Go ahead w the cam phasers lockouts. Check back in 6-12 mos let us know how they’re doing. Hehehehe.

 

[Adieu]

Go ahead w the cam phasers lockouts. Check back in 6-12 mos let us know how they’re doing. Hehehehe.

Would everybody in this thread who actually HAS a current, unresolved cam phaser issue troubling them please stand up?

....anyone???

No? So what y'all on about, then?

 

[Machete]

Would everybody in this thread who actually HAS a current, unresolved cam phaser issue troubling them please stand up?

....anyone???

No? So what y'all on about, then?

You’ve read why nobody owns one here. No ones going to stand up.

But the OP has gotten the opinions he’s asked for.

He should just go ahead w it.

Post back 6-12 mos later please.