To all you Gen 4 guys who had a Gen 3 (EB)

[LovinPSDs]

So we're looking to upgrade into a EB Expedition. We currently have been traveling fulltime for the past year but will be settling back down and looking for the do all rig moving forward.

I'm torn between a Gen 3 EB and a Gen 4. For those of you that have owned both what are your opinions? I don't really lose much sleep over gadgets and tech. Regardless we'd go L/Max for the bigger fuel tank and extra towing ability (Small camper or boat)

when it comes down to it, just wondering if the Gen 4 is really worth an extra $10k. A 2017 is pretty reasonable these days.

What are ya'lls thoughts? Good to be back by the way... Been yanking a 40' 5th wheel around with a dually for a year so kinda fell off the boards. Glad to see the Payload thread is still rockin!

 

[LokiWolf]

Tech wise there is VERY little difference between a 2017 and a 2018-2021. Both are Sync 3 with wired CP/AA.

The major differences is the Engine and Trans. Gen1 3.5 in the 2017, Gen2 3.5 in the 2018+. The Gen 2 motor has more power, and has both DI and PI. The 2017 is a 6 Speed Trans, and the 2018+ is the 10 Speed. The 2018+ get the advantage on those items. The one thing in my opinion where the 2017 Excelled was the towing pack with the Nivomat load leveling shocks. They made a wporld of difference in my opinion when towing. The 2020 we have has CCD, and technically in Tow mode it increases the valving in the rear shocks, but DOES NOT work as well as those Nivomats did. The 2020 tows well, but in my opinion with the shocks the 2017 did better. As far as every other thing, the 2020 is better. More power, and more comfortable.

 

[LovinPSDs]

Loki - I’m one of those guys who can’t leave hood enough alone.. so a tune for sure, maybe IC and intake just because. Also Hellwig bars most likely happen

One thought was save the money on the 17’ for some parts.

Do the load leveling shocks only come on certain packages in the Gen 3?

Deep down I’d like a Gen 4 but I’m also cheap

 

[GixxerJasen]

Deep down I’d like a Gen 4 but I’m also cheap

The struggle is real.

 

[LokiWolf]

Loki - I’m one of those guys who can’t leave hood enough alone.. so a tune for sure, maybe IC and intake just because. Also Hellwig bars most likely happen

One thought was save the money on the 17’ for some parts.

Do the load leveling shocks only come on certain packages in the Gen 3?

Deep down I’d like a Gen 4 but I’m also cheap

It came with the Heavy Tow package. Also for some of the years it could be optioned separately, but honestly can't remember. Best is to look under. The shocks look physically different.

Tuning REALLY wakes these things up! Also, after tuning, and even without tuning especially if you are towing the single best thing you can do is a quality aftermarket IC. Stock intake actually flows pretty good. There is some improvement to be had by a quality aftermarket setup, but not nearly as much gain as the IC.

 

[JExpedition07]

Based on my assessment of driving both the gen 2 Eco is a lot better than gen 1. I genuinely thought the 5.4 V8 behaved better with the 6 speed than the older EcoBoost, something is not right with the downshift pattern on that combo. 10R80 and gen 2 EcoBoost blows pretty much everything else on the market away on power and the downshift pattern is perfect.

 

[LovinPSDs]

It came with the Heavy Tow package. Also for some of the years it could be optioned separately, but honestly can't remember. Best is to look under. The shocks look physically different.

Tuning REALLY wakes these things up! Also, after tuning, and even without tuning especially if you are towing the single best thing you can do is a quality aftermarket IC. Stock intake actually flows pretty good. There is some improvement to be had by a quality aftermarket setup, but not nearly as much gain as the IC.

I was going to go either 5-star or gear head on tunes and still researching intercoolers. I know what’s out there for F150s but not sure what fits the Expeditions.

I guess we’ll see what I can get for ours and what I can find on the used market. We have a low mileage 2012 XLT (short wheel base and captain second row)

 

[LovinPSDs]

Based on my assessment of driving both the gen 2 Eco is a lot better than gen 1. I genuinely thought the 5.4 V8 behaved better with the 6 speed than the older EcoBoost, something is not right with the downshift pattern on that combo. 10R80 and gen 2 EcoBoost blows pretty much everything else on the market away on power and the downshift pattern is perfect.

Good info, I appreciate that!

 

[LovinPSDs]

Tech wise there is VERY little difference between a 2017 and a 2018-2021. Both are Sync 3 with wired CP/AA.

The major differences is the Engine and Trans. Gen1 3.5 in the 2017, Gen2 3.5 in the 2018+. The Gen 2 motor has more power, and has both DI and PI. The 2017 is a 6 Speed Trans, and the 2018+ is the 10 Speed. The 2018+ get the advantage on those items. The one thing in my opinion where the 2017 Excelled was the towing pack with the Nivomat load leveling shocks. They made a wporld of difference in my opinion when towing. The 2020 we have has CCD, and technically in Tow mode it increases the valving in the rear shocks, but DOES NOT work as well as those Nivomats did. The 2020 tows well, but in my opinion with the shocks the 2017 did better. As far as every other thing, the 2020 is better. More power, and more comfortable.

Hey Loki - where do you stand with reliability of the EB motor? Gen 1 or Gen 2, kinda get mixed responses

 

[ExpyNole]

You absolutely want the gen 2 3.5 ecoboost if anything for the port injection keeping the valves cleaner. Gen 1 3.5 EB really needs the intake manifold pulled and valves walnut blasted at around 100-125k miles due to carbon buildup. Not to mention a more efficient transmission and more hp/torque due to a massive upgrade overall.

 

[LokiWolf]

Hey Loki - where do you stand with reliability of the EB motor? Gen 1 or Gen 2, kinda get mixed responses

I think both are reliable honestly. The 6 Speed is a solid Trans, but so is the 10 Speed. The 10 Speed is A LOT more software dependent.

 

[LokiWolf]

You absolutely want the gen 2 3.5 ecoboost if anything for the port injection keeping the valves cleaner. Gen 1 3.5 EB really needs the intake manifold pulled and valves walnut blasted at around 100-125k miles due to carbon buildup. Not to mention a more efficient transmission and more hp/torque due to a massive upgrade overall.

If you run a Catch Can on the 1st Gen, it drastically decreases build up. There are also a few cleaning options out there, that don't require pulling the intake manifold, that work well. There are several threads on here discussing it. That being said the Dual injection setup does not eliminate buildup, because the motor still runs DI under most circumstances, it just helps to decrease it.

 

[ExpyNole]

If you run a Catch Can on the 1st Gen, it drastically decreases build up. There are also a few cleaning options out there, that don't require pulling the intake manifold, that work well. There are several threads on here discussing it. That being said the Dual injection setup does not eliminate buildup, because the motor still runs DI under most circumstances, it just helps to decrease it.

Had a mazdaspeed3 upon which Ford based the 2.3's and even 2.0 ecoboosts they run up to current, and the DI on that led to serious coking on the valves. Nothing worked for cleaning them aside from walnut blasting. Seafoam? nothing. B12 soaking with a brass brush? nope. Tried everything. I'd love to see how effective a non-blasting method is now

 

[tacoduck]

I’ve owned a 17 gen 3 and a 16 gen 3. Both ex-l. I’ve found both engines were extremely reliable. My 17 was stolen out of my driveway, so we bought a clean used 2016 with 4wd.

My driving impression is the 6speed tramny is great, and the engine is fast with instant torque on demand. Fuel economy is not great, but we roll heavy and I have a lead foot. Gen 3’s are an excellent value with lots available for under $30k.

 

[LokiWolf]

Had a mazdaspeed3 upon which Ford based the 2.3's and even 2.0 ecoboosts they run up to current, and the DI on that led to serious coking on the valves. Nothing worked for cleaning them aside from walnut blasting. Seafoam? nothing. B12 soaking with a brass brush? nope. Tried everything. I'd love to see how effective a non-blasting method is now

CRC GDI IVD Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner

CRC GDI IVD Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner can increase power and torque, stabilize rough idling, solve starting problems, and reduce vehicle emissions.

www.crcindustries.com

That is what I has used on several older Gen1 Powered F150's. Did not visually inspect, but the way they ran significantly improved after treatment. Several required 2, to 3 treatments to get back to running properly. I also used it on our 15 Expedition, since we bought it Ford Certified used, then I added a catch can.

 

[zablalbaz]

I know this is an older post, but I'm just throwing in my 2 cents worth. If you want to have Fordpass Connect with the ability to see your vehicles' location and health in the app on your phone, or you want to remotely start/stop, lock/unlock and see any health alerts or alarms from your phone, then you need to get a 2018 or newer Expedition. Before I purchased my 2017 a couple weeks ago, I asked the sales rep at the dealer if it "came with Fordpass." And she unequivocally told me that it did. What she did not mention (more likely did not know) is that while you can load a 2017 or older vehicle into the app on your phone, you cannot do anything useful with it. The 2017 an older models do not come with a TCU (modem) for any remote communication with the Ford network. You can hook it up to your home wifi and still get updates for your sync system, but you will not have any of the other goodies that come with the modem and Fordpass Connect. That said, I really love my 2017 Limited. It's damn nice.

 

[m3olsen]

It came with the Heavy Tow package. Also for some of the years it could be optioned separately, but honestly can't remember. Best is to look under. The shocks look physically different.

Tuning REALLY wakes these things up! Also, after tuning, and even without tuning especially if you are towing the single best thing you can do is a quality aftermarket IC. Stock intake actually flows pretty good. There is some improvement to be had by a quality aftermarket setup, but not nearly as much gain as the IC.

According to my info (2017 Expedition and EL Brochure) and my window sticker from my (prior) 2017, the Nivomat self leveling was an option across all lines in 2017. Mine had HD Tow, but no self leveling. Here are some of snippets from the Brochure. @LovinPSDs , if are planning to go the 2017 route and want the self leveling that @LokiWolf is raving about, I recommend you validate that it's on the window sticker (or learn what to look for and check yourself, as he suggested). I considered upgrading mine by buying the parts and doing the retrofit, but never got around to it and only occasionally towed more than a utility trailer.

 

[Rednecked]

I was going to go either 5-star or gear head on tunes and still researching intercoolers. I know what’s out there for F150s but not sure what fits the Expeditions.

I guess we’ll see what I can get for ours and what I can find on the used market. We have a low mileage 2012 XLT (short wheel base and captain second row)

Look into MPT tune