Variable Cam Timing and sludge

[Calexgon]

Hi everyone
I love reading all the great advice everyone on this forum offers. I have posted a couple of questions before and always had great responses and help from all of the very knowledgeable folks here. Thank you all!

Now to my question. I have a 2015 XLT EL Expy with the 3.5 and the other day the check engine light came on. It immediately showed signs of having no power and I took it into the dealer yesterday morning. The dealer called and said that the engine has a lot of sludge build-up and that the Variable Cam Timing was sticking and dropping to full retard position. I don't know much about the variable timing on this motor, but the dealer told me that due to insufficient oil change frequency, that sludge has built up in the motor causing this issue and now they won't warranty any fix except for an engine replacemnt ($11k). Before I made this gigantic leap, I thought I'd ask if anyone had any advice for me (other than to change my oil more often, as I'm not painfully aware).

Do I have any alternatives that you can suggest? I'd really like to keep the Expy if possible and would like to avoid buying a new, or even used vehicle, but will if that's what makes the most sense.

Thanks for any advice you can send me.

Have a great day

 

[jkayca]

Did you change the oil at the recommended frequency? If so, go back and tell them to fix it under warranty.

 

[Calexgon]

Hi jkayca
Unfortunately not this last time. I let it go too long. I'm also out of warranty as I'm at about 144,000 miles at this point.

 

[07navi]

Hi jkayca
Unfortunately not this last time. I let it go too long. I'm also out of warranty as I'm at about 144,000 miles at this point.

You shoulda' changed it.

 

[Calexgon]

you're tellin me!

 

[Robert McMillan]

you're tellin me!

This is why you need a catch can

 

[jkayca]

Hi jkayca
Unfortunately not this last time. I let it go too long. I'm also out of warranty as I'm at about 144,000 miles at this point.

Well that sucks. Given that you are out of warranty I would go somewhere other than the dealer for a second opinion.
There are also additives you can use to try and get rid of the sludge but I don't know how well they really work.

 

[07navi]

I would thoroughly flush that engine and replace any parts that were impacted.

 

[07xln]

Letting one oil change go too long doesn’t cause engine harming sludge buildup. I got a feeling you’ve let just about every oil change probably go too long.

 

[Trainmaster]

That engine would really need 100K miles of serious neglect to cause that problem. Modern oils simply don't gum up like the oils of a few decades ago. Here's a couple of thoughts.

I believe the VCT Control Solenoids have screens in them that can clog with sludge. I may be wrong, but someone will correct me if I am. Have these been checked?

Consider 07navi's advice. In the old days we'd flush engines with kerosene for awhile to clear the wax, gum and crap from the old time oils when we had sludged lifters. That could certainly be explored. There's a lot of diagnostics that should be done long before someone recommends scrapping a six year old motor.

How about finding a real mechanic that will work with you on these recommendations?

 

[JasonH]

This is why you need a catch can

Call around for competing quotes. The issue is that a junkyard engine may not have had proper maintenance as well. Perhaps you can get a low mileage engine from a wreck swapped in.

Rebuild from an independent shop? Maybe sell it as needing repair and get a new one.

Out of curiosity, what type of oil did you use and what were your oil change intervals?

 

[07navi]

Letting one oil change go too long doesn’t cause engine harming sludge buildup. I got a feeling you’ve let just about every oil change probably go too long.

Me too.

 

[Carl Keef Jr]

I had a similar problem on my 2010 Expedition. I thought I was facing an expensive repair until I came across a post from a Ford mechanic with a recommendation that I tried and it resolved the issue completely.

Step 1: Purchase 2 11oz cans of Bg109 Bg EPR Engine Performance Restoration. This will remove all the sludge and clean the solenoid screens.
Step 2: Add the Bg EPR and drive the Expedition for about 15-20 minutes.
Step 3: Let the engine cool and then change the oil and filter using 100% Synthetic 5W-30 motor oil.

I used a FRAM Tough Guard TG2, 15K Mile Change Interval Spin-On Oil Filter and Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil.

Turns out that everywhere else in the world that Ford sells this engine, they recommend using 5W-30 motor oil. But in the US, to meet emission standards, they recommend 5W-20 oil.

To be on the safe side, I waited about 3 weeks and did this process again. No more issues and I only use 5W-30 motor oil in it now.

 

[Matticus]

+1 to trying to flush the engine. At this point, if they think you need a new motor, try something like BG oil flush) or whatever else is out there. Personally, I think dealerships just want to sell you a new motor. That seems to be their solution for anything anymore. Broken valve spring? New motor rather than attempt something that takes some intelligence. Engine running rough and you have slightly lower compression on one cylinder compared to the others? We're not going to look any further, so, new motor. Wiper blades not working well? You need a new motor

 

[Goofy173]

First, never take any vehicle to a dealer unless it's warranty work. This from a former Mercury service manager.

So take it to an independent. Ask friends who to go to.

One miss of an oil change will have no effect on build up. I'm not familiar with this engine but I know 5.4s are really susceptible to build-up.

 

[lbv150]

+1 to trying to flush the engine. At this point, if they think you need a new motor, try something like BG oil flush) or whatever else is out there. Personally, I think dealerships just want to sell you a new motor. That seems to be their solution for anything anymore. Broken valve spring? New motor rather than attempt something that takes some intelligence. Engine running rough and you have slightly lower compression on one cylinder compared to the others? We're not going to look any further, so, new motor. Wiper blades not working well? You need a new motor

Kind of like oh he died getting run over by a truck?....list it as COVID19.

 

[lbv150]

Still waiting on the replay to the oil change interval mileage, type of oil and filter. My '16 and all other vehicles 3,000 max on oil changes and only use the recommended grade of oil, the 3.5 Ecoboost is 5w-30. Oil changes on the 3.5 with the turbo boost is really important. Don't even bother looking at the oil life percent gauge.

 

[rjdelp7]

I suspect the dealer wants no part of working on a vehicle, an owner neglects. Say, they band aid fix it, they know you will be back complaining, when it happens again. A 'new' engine option takes care of that. There is no way to flush an engine. The sludge and debris will go into the pan and get sucked into the oil pickup. When the pick up clogs, you will have no oil pressure. You may find a mechanic willing to clean/replace the VCT solenoid. Detergent in motor oil may clean up the engine slowly, if you do a few oil changes after 1000mi or less. I would try that first or trade it in.

 

[07xln]

I need to

+1 to trying to flush the engine. At this point, if they think you need a new motor, try something like BG oil flush) or whatever else is out there. Personally, I think dealerships just want to sell you a new motor. That seems to be their solution for anything anymore. Broken valve spring? New motor rather than attempt something that takes some intelligence. Engine running rough and you have slightly lower compression on one cylinder compared to the others? We're not going to look any further, so, new motor. Wiper blades not working well? You need a new motor

I need to visit your dealer. From past experience and tons of others I’ve heard from or read about, the dealer does what ever they can to avoid engine replacement. When something clearly warrants an engine replacement they usually wanna tear the motor apart and replace parts and keep the vehicle for months at a time.