Water Fording - 2017 EL?

[shinysideup2]

Guys. I've been searching all around for water fording depth of the 3rd gen Expedition EL (2017 EB). I'll be headed to Mojave National Preserve in California. There are a couple water crossings that may get as deep as shown in the photo below. Wondering if I should avoid these.

From what I've read on this forum, looks like earlier generations did ok with water fording, but 4th gens can't go above wheel hubs due to risk of damaging electronics and taking water into diffs and tranny.

How deep can we ford in our 3rd gens? What preparations can I make to avoid damage or water contamination to driveline components & lubricants if water gets deeper than wheel hubs? Do we have breather hoses on our diffs, transfer case, transmission? If not, are there kits available? Are the seals from half-shafts to diffs adequate to keep water out?




Thanks.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

I would go by what the owners manual recommends!

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[Trainmaster]

I believe the owners' manual says keep the water below the hubs. You can go deeper, probably as deep as the transmission and differential vents, as long as your pockets are deep enough to replace the stuff that rusts and shorts out in the year following. That's how long it will take for any leaking electrical connector and bearing seals to talk to you. And they will.

Look to see how high the vent hoses are. They are tie wrapped to stuff at the factory and often slip way down or fall off their nipples. All the seals when new are designed to keep out water, but after eight years, who knows what shape they're in? One way to find out though.

Good luck with door seals. And good luck with the coils. They don'l like water on a good day.

 

[chuck s]

Trying to turn a country club SUV into an off-road river fording vehicle seldom works. Water in the hubs may be the least of your worries.

-- Chuck

 

[07xln]

In before the damage occurs and the insurance fraud gets committed

 

[Brucek50]

My 2011 Expy 4x4 xlt sneezes in a draft. Going thru a stream would surely give it pneumonia.

 

[chuck s]

DRIVING THROUGH WATER
WARNING
Do not drive through flowing or deep
water as you may lose control of your
vehicle.
Note: Driving through standing water can
cause vehicle damage.
Note: Engine damage can occur if water
enters the air filter.
Before driving through standing water,
check the depth. Never drive through water
that is higher than the bottom of the wheel
hubs.

(Owner's Manual)

-- Chuck

 

[Machete]

Guys. I've been searching all around for water fording depth of the 3rd gen Expedition EL (2017 EB). I'll be headed to Mojave National Preserve in California. There are a couple water crossings that may get as deep as shown in the photo below. Wondering if I should avoid these.

From what I've read on this forum, looks like earlier generations did ok with water fording, but 4th gens can't go above wheel hubs due to risk of damaging electronics and taking water into diffs and tranny.

How deep can we ford in our 3rd gens? What preparations can I make to avoid damage or water contamination to driveline components & lubricants if water gets deeper than wheel hubs? Do we have breather hoses on our diffs, transfer case, transmission? If not, are there kits available? Are the seals from half-shafts to diffs adequate to keep water out?


View attachment 39979

Thanks.

Oh hell no.

 

[shinysideup2]

My 2011 Expy 4x4 xlt sneezes in a draft. Going thru a stream would surely give it pneumonia.

Funny.

Thanks for the info and warnings guys!

 

[Boostedbus]

It looks like the new Bronco is equipped to do some water fording.

 

[chuck s]

I think the hubs have different seals. My neighbor has a 4-door jeep with a snorkel but I'll bet he'll drown the ignition before the water gets that deep.

-- Chuck

 

[JamaicaJoe]

(Owner's Manual)

-- Chuck

And that's standing water. Not water with big waves as you and others plow through it. I think to be a serious off roader you need to have deep pockets, a huge workshop, three spare vehicles and like to break stuff dramatically.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Tangerine_Dream_-_Sorcerer.jpg

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[chuck s]

Junior high general science showed how cold water was sucked into warm bearings. Boat trailers commonly have pressurized hubs to keep the water out of the bearings. Our Expeditions do not.

-- Chuck

 

[Trainmaster]

Anyone remember the Amphicar? Amphibious 1960's German thing that road in the water like a motorboat, until it rotted out. Built completely for swimming and every week there was something to fix, a seal to change or a bearing to order. Jamaica Joe says it best. You need deep pockets for water games.

 

[JExpedition07]

Buy a 6x6 amphibious ATV if you want to play in water lol. It’s made to float and swim in any amount of water you like and drive over land. The tires have a deep water fording tread made to propel it forward. Reverse is tough though. It goes about 6-7 MPH wide open in the water. About 2 MPH in reverse. But sealed hubs, sealed undercarriage etc.

 

[shinysideup2]

So I stuck my cell phone camera up where the sun don't shine... took a few photos of the rear diff and attempted taking some photos of the front diff & tranny (mostly obstructed). All photos here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/xU2Gp3safcVWwtmy8 Here are a few observations:

1) Rear diff does have a diff breather with a tube running up through the body.

2) Front diff was too obstructed to see any situation with a diff breather/vent tube, but I would hope that if Ford went through the trouble of vent/tubing the rear, they would have done the front. But you never know. Can't really see shit in the 3 photos below.
- Facing forward, just to the left of the front diff pinion bearing/seal.

- Just below and to the right of the same pinion seal, facing up, looking at part of the front diff.

- I honestly have little idea how I got this shot. I think I stuck my cell phone up through a crevice and above a frame member (bottom of photo) and snapped a shot of the compressor side of my driver's side turbo (top center)


3) Ignition coils on the EB (Direct Injection/Direct Ignition) are over the top of the cylinders/spark plugs, which puts them at about the top of the wheel well, which is about 37" above ground. I understand there are other electronics to be concerned with.
4) Hub center is about 16" high. 34" tires + ~1" lift w/ Bilstein 6112's.

I have not fully considered the hub seals and understand that could be an issue if submerged excessively. But I wonder what issues a 20 second ford through a 30" high river would really create...
A-i) Water in the diffs? Well, the breather tubes are installed and intact (at least in the rear), so it shouldn't enter through the vent.
A-ii) I suppose water could seep into the diff through the diff seal @ the half axle or through the pinion seal. But aren't those seals designed to hold fluids in (and therefore, hopefully out)?

B) Water in the hub bearings? Maybe? I have no idea. Has anybody had rust or other water-related problems with their hub bearings?
C) Engine electronics? I haven't explored under the hood enough to inventory electronics that might potentially become damaged due to submersion.
D) Tranny? Can't see quite enough to determine where the tranny might be vented or where sensitive components might be mounted.
E) Engine? Coils are pretty high up @ about 37" and hiding behind the radiator.

I'd really appreciate some anecdotal or real world first-hand experience with water fording on the 3rd gen EB and the specific damage done, if any.

Thanks for humoring my insanity.

 

[Trainmaster]

I agree with your analysis, ShinySide.

I'm unsure of the door seals and the transmission vent. I doubt there's any venting hose on the tranny, so you would be limited by the location of the vent and its bulkhead connector. Also see where any body openings are in the jambs. See how low the window motors are as the doors have drain holes with plugs that probably won't seal. Same with the tailgate and its openings.

Remember that the door weatherstripping may not hold out water and that wouldn't be fun. Also some cars come from the factory with one or more drain plugs missing under the carpets. Look for the backs of them in the floorboards.

 

[4X4RE]

I have taken 1st Gen & 2nd Gen Expeditions through water that touched the wipers many times. One easy recommendation is to get some hose and extend the vents to the transmission and differentials as high as you can get them and cap them off with check valves. Also, make sure that your coil packs are sealed well.

 

[Trainmaster]

I have taken 1st Gen & 2nd Gen Expeditions through water that touched the wipers many times.

The floor stayed dry?

 

[joethefordguy]

I have taken 1st Gen & 2nd Gen Expeditions through water that touched the wipers many times. One easy recommendation is to get some hose and extend the vents to the transmission and differentials as high as you can get them and cap them off with check valves. Also, make sure that your coil packs are sealed well.

I've seen an Amazon kit that extends those tubes as you suggest.