What’s with the common misconception on foreign cars?

[JExpedition07]

Ive always heard foreign vehicles are better. Better quality, better interior, better features, this has always been pushed by the automotive media. I come from a family of Ford owners. I’ve owned multiple American vehicles since I’ve been driving, all Fords. I started with an Explorer, moved up to a Expedition for the space. Then moved up again to an Expedition EL. I had a short lived pickup as well. I was riding in a friends 2009 Range Rover today and couldn’t help but notice it kind of sucks. My Eddie Bauer interior is leaps and bounds nicer than the Rover. The leather is two tone and softer in mine. I have cooled and heated seats, he only gets heat. My stereo sounds more powerful with the stock woofer, my vehicle is 2 years older as a 2007 and seems better in every way. I just don’t get the common misconception.

GM and Ford both have much higher payload and towing capacity than any of the foreign competition. And in my opinion nicer interiors.

 

[Cyclone]

I was one of those things that was true back in the late 70s and early 80s. Very True.

But the Big Three picked it up on the late 80s and by the 90s they were very good. I remember a consumer reports back in the early 2000s where it had its quality rankings and Mercedes was one of the worst. I really thought they were supposed to be supreme, but I guess not.

Plus you also have to remember how many Hondas, Toyotas, etc... are built in US factories and gets parts from US suppliers. Also Big Three get parts from outside the US. So in reality, its all global anyway. Hard to distinguish now compared to before.

 

[Plati]

I'll always buy American if possible. The content of an American car is a high % of global components but at least the corporation is American. Its hard to buy a lot of products that are USA sourced or even know if they are or how much they are but its a good goal to have. I'd happily pay more money to do so. I also like to support local businesses if I can but that's getting to be more difficult so you do what you can do.

Capitalism is what forced American car makers and other manufacturers (Xerox) to improve their products vs international competition. Competition is good ... To a point. I hope we can figure out how to allow Capitalism and Competition to survive and work. Its under threat in many ways at the moment. Rant over

 

[TobyU]

Yep. Old Japanese were bad (at least body rust wise) then they got better right after US ones started to rust out badly.
Then imports had much better longer lasting engines and usually transmissions too.
Imports were more to fix but failed less often.

Then domestic upped their game and got better.
Then with better painting and lots of plastic they stopped rusting so badly.

I think the golden age of autos was from around 1992-1996 up until around 2005 and maybe up to 2012 for some.

They had engines pretty much perfected and most all of them would go 225-250K with just minimal oil changes. Now they are pushing so hard for that extra 2-3 mpg and adding variable valve timing and cylinder deactivation and stop/start etc and these things are causing these vehicles to need major $1200-2000 repairs at 115k-150k.
I have a fleet of vehicle here 04 and below with miles from 49K-over 300K that have never had even a valve cover off!!! I will not have anything new that is inferior in durability vs old just to have the latest and greatest or convenience features.
I DO NOT want a 2012 or above with the way they make them with no real keys etc etc etc..
I WANT A brand new 2000-2004 (maybe 08 with some brands).
Just sell me a brand new non rusty, non worn one like I had that is just as good and the same as the one I had for 15 years.
I want NEW condition...NOT NEW design or different.

 

[LRNAD90]

I was riding in a friends 2009 Range Rover today and couldn’t help but notice it kind of sucks. My Eddie Bauer interior is leaps and bounds nicer than the Rover.

First time I have ever heard the acres of plastic dash/door panels, etc in an expedition described as leaps and bounds ahead of a Range Rover interior. Interior quality is always high on the list of complaints of auto journalist in every review I have read or watched about the Expedition. Conversely, Range Rover Interiors are pretty much always highly rated in just about every review I've seen.

Everyone has their own opinion I guess, but that is a tough observation to swallow..

 

[JExpedition07]

First time I have ever heard the acres of plastic dash/door panels, etc in an expedition described as leaps and bounds ahead of a Range Rover interior. Interior quality is always high on the list of complaints of auto journalist in every review I have read or watched about the Expedition. Conversely, Range Rover Interiors are pretty much always highly rated in just about every review I've seen.

Everyone has their own opinion I guess, but that is a tough observation to swallow..

The Rover is literally all cheap plastic, look at the pics. The Expedition is much nicer. This is what I’m talking about, so many people are under that spell the media plays into.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

I can't say I've ever heard the initial argument outside of reliability and that clearly comes from Honda/Toyota, especially those old 4 bangers that just seemed to go forever.

As for interiors, I've experienced some real garbage on both sides of the aisle. The 2 worst I ever sat in were a 2009 Chevy Malibu and one of the later Explorers before they redid it. Overall, I think Ford's interiors are ok, but when I was comparing Suburbans and Expeditions from similar model years, the Suburban was leaps and bounds ahead. My wife's Mazda is a bit nicer inside than my Expedition (or it was until she trashed it), but not as nice as the Suburbans I looked it.

 

[LRNAD90]

The Rover is literally all cheap plastic, look at the pics. The Expedition is much nicer. This is what I’m talking about, so many people are under that spell the media plays into.

Yeah, I've been in both, and I'm looking at the photos you've posted, and I still disagree with you. Far more higher end, soft touch materials, leather and higher quality wood trim in the RR. The interior quality is one of the biggest turn-offs for my wife, and I really can't argue the point. It doesn't bother me as much, but I can't argue that she is wrong.

As for cooled seats, until very recently that seems to be an American thing, even high end BMWs and Mercedes didn't really jump on that band wagon till much later..

That's great you like your Expedition's interior more. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but your not convincing me, sorry..

Now the reliability thing, Land Rover in general, and that Generation Range Rover in particular, has a horrible reputation for mechanical reliability, that I will not argue, and you can see that reflected in the bargain basement resale values for what was once a $90-100K vehicle...

But Land Rover has turned that around a bit, and their trucks currently hold extremely good resale values, so..

 

[TobyU]

The Rover is literally all cheap plastic, look at the pics. The Expedition is much nicer. This is what I’m talking about, so many people are under that spell the media plays into.

View attachment 31667
View attachment 31664

I really see very little difference. I am not a fan or woodgrain. I don't like the silver lines going down under the middle vents though.
I love the all black seats in the RR. All vehicles should be able to be purchased with all black (cloth or leather too). Red or other color trim or piping is neat but some of us will opt for all black. I can't stand light or light center sections.

 

[TobyU]

I can't say I've ever heard the initial argument outside of reliability and that clearly comes from Honda/Toyota, especially those old 4 bangers that just seemed to go forever.

As for interiors, I've experienced some real garbage on both sides of the aisle. The 2 worst I ever sat in were a 2009 Chevy Malibu and one of the later Explorers before they redid it. Overall, I think Ford's interiors are ok, but when I was comparing Suburbans and Expeditions from similar model years, the Suburban was leaps and bounds ahead. My wife's Mazda is a bit nicer inside than my Expedition (or it was until she trashed it), but not as nice as the Suburbans I looked it.

The first or early import engines weren't even that much better...or the issue was you couldn't keep the car together long enough to get as many miles as they might have been able to go.
I had an 80 ( I think) Datsun B210 that only had about 100K on it but it was so rusty I had to quit using the rear doors. Then the steering box broke off the frame....
The early Japanese cars were little shitboxes.

Then they cranked up the quality and reliability and the US took a number of years to catch up.
Now people are still going around saying imports are so much better than US when there is little difference.
The difference is more between brands and models and not where the parent company is from or located.
I have noticed I am starting to like the look of more and more Mazdas!
I hate the model numbering/naming system but like the look.
BUT---all brands look about alike today anyway.

 

[Michael Shepherd]

Can't speak to the older Range Rovers, but during our week in San Diego for the 4th of July, rented a 2019 Range Rover Sport from Hertz, I felt the car's interior was much, much better than our 2017 Ltd. Next to no plastic, leather everywhere including on top of the dash, great heated/cooled seats/steering wheel, and aside from the engine shutoff at traffic lights and my lack of understanding for how to reliably shift into reverse with the electronic gear shifter, I was really impressed with the Rover.

 

[JExpedition07]

Can't speak to the older Range Rovers, but during our week in San Diego for the 4th of July, rented a 2019 Range Rover Sport from Hertz, I felt the car's interior was much, much better than our 2017 Ltd. Next to no plastic, leather everywhere including on top of the dash, great heated/cooled seats/steering wheel, and aside from the engine shutoff at traffic lights and my lack of understanding for how to reliably shift into reverse with the electronic gear shifter, I was really impressed with the Rover.

Then again we should be comparing that 2019 Rover with the 2019 Navigator. I’ll go on a limb again and say it...the Navigator is leaps and bounds nicer. Not even a contest in my book, the Lincoln has more power, features, capacities than the Rover. I know most of you will think the Rover is nicer. I guess most people like Plain Jane. I like two tones, wood grains, not black plastic and leather like everyone else has.

 

[JExpedition07]

That ‘09 Rover had no premium materials imo, it squeaked and everything was plastic as with most vehicles from the era. It hasn’t aged well. Maybe they’ve upped their game since, but my Expedition felt like a nicer truck in and out.

 

[cmiles97]

Toby, you should look at 4runners. They haven't done a redesign in 10 years. One of the reviewer complaints. Yet 18 was a record sales year for them. Why? Folks want the simple durability & reliability from their basic proven design.

If you go with a high end luxury vehicle experts say to lease them. They have many very expensive problems after 100K miles.

One reviewer was explaining why some Japanese car manufactures always rate highly in reliability is that the workers and management work together vs USA where they hate each other.

OP: Did you check the Land Rover for bubbling paint?

 

[Adieu]

Then again we should be comparing that 2019 Rover with the 2019 Navigator. I’ll go on a limb again and say it...the Navigator is leaps and bounds nicer. Not even a contest in my book, the Lincoln has more power, features, capacities than the Rover. I know most of you will think the Rover is nicer. I guess most people like Plain Jane. I like two tones, wood grains, not black plastic and leather like everyone else has.

View attachment 31676
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Too busy vs too plain

They're both pretty disappointing

 

[chuck s]

Misconception? Nonsense.

And then there are the 10 most-reliable vehicles, which, according to CR, include five Toyota, with three Prius models, and two vehicles from Lexus, Toyota’s luxury brand:

1. Lexus GS
2. Toyota Prius C
3. Toyota Prius Prime
4. Mazda MX-5 Miata
5. Toyota Corolla
6. Lexus NX
7. Toyota Prius
8. Honda Fit
9. Kia Sedona
10. Toyota Highlander

-- Chuck

 

[Muddy Bean]

I’m 37 years old... and in that time frame I have owned in order from first vehicle to most recent vehicle:

1. Chevy Celebrity
2. Ford Taurus
3. Toyota Corolla
4. Saturn SL1
5. Pontiac Bonneville
6. Pontiac Bonneville
7. Buick LeSabre
8. Saturn SL2
9. Nissan Sentra Spec V
10. Toyota Pickup
11. Buick LeSabre
12. Toyota Tercel
13. Chevy Astro
14. Toyota Camry
15. Toyota Land Cruiser 100 series
16. 2015 Ford Expedition EL Ecoboost

And I can say without a doubt, from first hand experience, it’s not a misconception. My Toyota’s were better quality vehicles. From the thud of the shutting door, to the lack of interior rattles, to just plain old reliability there is still no contest. Here’s my honest assessment:

Ford/GM/Dodge all very comfortable vehicles for the most part. My Buick’s were plush and nice. Lots of low end grunt from our big V6 and V8 engines. Parts are cheap and plentiful even in the remotest towns I can find parts for most vehicles. I can drive my expedition for 10 hours and still not be physically worn out. Seats support, little luxuries like well place cup holders, high fidelity sound systems, and power running boards are just nice to have and I enjoy them.

Toyota, Honda, Acura, Subaru:
My mom owned brand new Subaru’s (forester) and dad owned brand new Honda Odyssey minivan. One of my best friends owned several Acura’s so I’ve driven them a lot too. Most vehicles in these manufacturers lineups are just not as plush or comfy. My Camry had a soft and quiet ride but the seats would destroy my back in two hours. Like badly. My Land Cruiser even was uncomfortable on long road trips believe it or not. That truck just wasn’t as nice of a highway cruiser as my expedition. But I never had a single issue with it in 300,000 miles. Nor my camry which I drove to 300,000 miles. Not my toyota pickup or my Tercel. My dad drove his van well past 300,000 miles with no issues. Same with the Acura 2.5tl. Mom sold her Subaru so can attest to that one. But that car was horribly uncomfortable with a very stiff ride. I hated that thing.

But in spite of comfort issues, plain vanilla driving experiences that were neither exciting nor satisfying, my foreign cars and trucks just worked every single day. No drama. No issues. I fed them Mobil 1 Extended Performance once every 20,000 miles or so and they just ticked along until I sold them. I really miss that boring reliability.

I drive a LOT of miles every year. My 2015 EL has 136,000 miles so far. My expedition has already had a bunch of annoying ongoing issues. It eats spark plugs for breakfast lunch and dinner with a few snacks in between. I’ve already blown a turbo and had it replaced. I’ve had two coolant leaks at both turbos. I’ve had the throttle body fail completely on me and strand me twice on the road before getting it replaced, my heated and cooled seats quit working within months of me buying the truck, and I had to drill a hole in my intercooler to stop the multiple cylinder misfires on a road trip out west last year. Leaking struts early on in the trucks life had to be replaced, and now I’m getting aluminum corrosion on my lift gate. I just never ever experienced this level of issues with any of my “foreign” vehicles even though they had twice the mileage my Expedition does. Do I love my Ford? Yep. Is it really the biggest, most comfortable and quiet highway cruiser? Yep. Would I trade it for a Lexus LX570? Thinking about it.




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[jeff kushner]

MB's about right for his time period and the "old guys" nailed it with mentioning Cheap Japanese Junk first shipping in the US in the early/mid 60's. Datsun, Subaru had that minicar that 3 teens could lift and set on the Community floating raft before cutting the raft loose on the Magothy river(according the rumors at the time). Heck, BRITISH crap with their vertical crank seams & Lucas;Lord of Darkness was better than anything coming from Asia.

The prob the US firms had was corporate laziness that came from having built the HP muscle cars fly off the lots only to see the inception of the EPA, gas lines & the flood of untaxed cars from Asia(no tax was setup b/c they had shipped no amount of cars at the time)they sat and waited while first Japan, then Korea began to eat their lunch. By the time the meal was over in the late 80's, the US firms were starving and the Asian firms fat & happy.

Today....I don't generalize by manufacturer....too much interfacing as Toby pointed out I believe. I have a '02 SLK(supercharged w/ oversize crank pulley) with 200K on it.....NOTHING had ever broke.....so last winter, I spent a few dollars and had the suspension and all 3 liquid-filled motor mounts replaced...total around 2400 bucks invested.

I also remember very well buying an new '80 Chevette b/c it was the cheapest American car. It had over 365K when sold....Original clutch, tranny & engine. 6-7 timing belts at 31 dollars and 22 minutes each, 2 starters(pita location), 1 water pump....I did all my own work back then so it prob cost less then I just sunk into my little slk for elective work!

To me, quality looks nice and lasts.....if a car....which is bought solely for transportation isn't reliable and things inside break too? No, that's isn't quality no matter how much you wast...er, spent on it! Quality begins with those two basics.....after that, you can dress it up but if it can't do the 1st two.....to me it's junk b/c it's no longer usable.

My slk is kept clean, as are all my bikes but my truck is just that, a truck. I make sure all my maintenance stuff is done and since I don't chose to live or drive in a sh*thole, I keep the inside clean and neat.....the rest is purely subjective as was also mentioned......

jeff

 

[JExpedition07]

I’m aware Toyota is a bar in reliability, I was looking at Sequoia trucks before I bought my Expedition. They hold their value well, however I did not like the interior and the shorter wheelbase. The 5.7 iForce was a solid performer although it drinks more gas than my 5.4 Triton I could live with it regardless. It was more the styling/ size that put me off.

However I still hold it’s a misconception. Nissan and reliability should not be mentioned in the same sentence. Nissan, VW, Fiat, Acura are all rock bottom on reliability from multiple credible sources and well behind domestics (Ford, GM). You can count modern day Mercedes in that pile too. The mentioned manufacturers all have lousy automatics for starters.

 

[Going_Going_Gone]

Since we were married, a long time ago, my wife and I have owned two Chevys, a Buick, two Oldsmobiles, two Maximas, one '91 Toyota PU, one Mazda CX9, one Lincoln MKX, and seven Fords: one Taurus SHO, one Taurus SEL, one full-sized Bronco, 3 full-sized 4X4 pickups (one a first-year 6.0 diesel), and now our Expedition Max. Just based on our ownership experience, ranking them by brand from the most problems/vehicle to least I would say: either Chevy, Toyota, 2001 Maxima, '80 Buick, 2011 Lincoln, 1990 Maxima, 2007 Mazda, and the Fords, with the exception of our 1999 Taurus, in total averaged the least number of problems/vehicle. In terms of out-of-pocket expenses, the Toyota was by the costliest to maintain: after the warranty period, more parts failed, some repeatedly, and the Toyota parts cost way more than comparable parts for a domestic vehicle.