Scammed or Clueless? 2009 Expedition

[pennyanguy]

disappointing to hear...that's hard to do when looking at a vehicle 400 miles away. Thanks for the advise.

Are there better versions of the EL that are less trouble prone...not sure I can afford a newer one and I was shy of the turbo v-6 for hauling (camper)

 

[Flexpedition]

I'd say ignore threads like this and the many others like it.

Model years 2007-2008 Ford sold 150,000 Expeditions in the US and Canada. Ten years later a couple handfuls take a dump and its somehow an epidemic? Really? Its worse than CNN's 24x7 coverage of the Ebola outbreak in the US. Many members come here to complain, and only to complain - literally about everything.

 

[rcanfiel]

Follow up time

I did not post in the interim, because I was not fond of a couple posts treating it like "why the )(&#% do I not just take it back"?

People do not post to be second guessed or questioned. I was trying to educate and inform others.

Anyway, I did not read my latest post, so will provide a summary. After the issues described above (blown head gasket, etc.):

1) Dealer had me contact the 3rd party warranty company, which they had provided. After a few days of paperwork and explanations, they turned it down as "preexisting issue"

2) Called dealer. They went through their rep. I was assigned a customer advocate.

3) After more paperwork and dealing with customer advocate (he called a few shops), I was again turned down as preexisting issue.

4) I decided to have my mechanic do a remanufactured engine from Jasper. $6300 with installation - 3 year warranty including labor. Ready next week.

5) They videoed removing the old "muddy" oil - remember 16,000 miles since last oil change. This will help in court, I believe.

6) Expected to be ready middle of next week.

I fully expect to recoup at least half from the selling dealer.
o As I said, I will first threaten with BBB, Attorney General's office, and various review sites. Seeking compensation for the bad engine, tow, and rental car costs.
o Apparently if there is a question about the dealer's practices, the state can come in and turn every deal they ever did upside down and investigate. Dealers do not like to go through this.
o If they are not making reasonable amends, I will go to small claims court. My mechanic thinks I have a strong case. I will make a very compelling argument and multiple prices of evidence.


POSITIVE
The Endurance warranty I purchased cut the cost by $500 and added a year, when I informed them the dealer was providing a warranty.

I have an engine that now has no miles. As opposed to 130,000 miles with some questionable known issues. I am sure that bumps the value by quite a bit, although I have no plans to sell it.

I have new coil packs, new spark plugs, new timing chain, serpentine chain, belts and hoses, new water pump and a lot of other new parts that will not have to be replaced one at a time.

 

[rcanfiel]

disappointing to hear...that's hard to do when looking at a vehicle 400 miles away. Thanks for the advise.

Are there better versions of the EL that are less trouble prone...not sure I can afford a newer one and I was shy of the turbo v-6 for hauling (camper)

Do not buy 2007-2008. 2007 was new year with many problems. 2008 still had a number of problems. Also avoid 2012. There was a reason I got the 2009. Remember, there is a reason that people sell a vehicle or house. Sometimes a known major problem and it is repossessed or sold without revealing this.

Honestly, you may have to find older to get 100,000 miles for $10K. I did a lot of research, and a 3rd Gen with those miles is unlikely. Or up your budget. The dealers who advertise cheap are the ones with bad reputations and you will not get what you think.

Of everything I learned, do NOT buy AS-IS. If a problem and they do not fix it, it looks a lot better in court if there was any kind of implied warranty.

Make sure you have Ford inspect it (but they look for stuff like codes and brakes, they did not check the fluids or other issues), drive it a lot listening for the issues noted in this forum, check the air filter and oil/tranny/brake fluids that they are good, avoid the years I mentioned, check the BBB/yelp/cars.com type ratings of the dealer. Avoid any dealer who only let you tests it on his lot. Some problems are apparently hidden with suppressive type sprays.

Remember, there is a reason someone sold it. Sometimes, to avoid an expensive fix.

If they offer a warranty, verify it is a company with a good record if you must buy it. You can always drop it later. If you get a 3rd party warranty, they will make you wait a few months and 1,000 miles before they will cover it. Take the dealer warranty - at least it is generally good from day one (but not for preexisting issues).

I recommend Endurance. They have a good reputation. An old Expedition is expensive to fix. And the price they quote can often be negotiated. I learned that the hard way.

 

[Bedrck47]

Follow up time

I did not post in the interim, because I was not fond of a couple posts treating it like "why the )(&#% do I not just take it back"?

People do not post to be second guessed or questioned. I was trying to educate and inform others.

Your original topic was "Scammed or Clueless"
And now you say you were "trying to educate and inform others"

You were SCAMMED and the dealer was not CLUELESS

The members on this forum were trying to EDUCATE you when they said take it back.
You now have an expy with no miles on the engine That's good
But was all the extra headache and money worth it>
Is the up coming legal action worth it?

Go back and read your post #8 in which you stated "
I chose the 2009, to get past engine/tranny issues in the 2007-8 model.

Did you really get past the engine problems?

They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks Members tried to offer you advice and suggestions but YOU were determined that you wanted what you were SCAMMED into buying.

 

[1955moose]

Being that this is a Ford Expedition forum on not only repair advice, but all aspects of these vehicles. When a potential buyer asks for an honest opinion of a particular year, or engine group, I have to be honest. Their may only be a handful of members that report engine issues on this forum, and yes they sold tons of them. But think of how many did have engine issues with cam phasers, weak or failing oil pumps, etc. Their not all on our website to report. It's like 2 humans can be on the same high fat diet, along with heavy alcohol consumption, one lives to 85, the other dies at 50, why you ask, luck, metabolism, who knows. Point is, being a mechanic, and a person with a conscience, if somebody asks me an honest opinion of a vehicle with known issues, how can I honestly recommend it? I don't know about you flexpedition, but I can't honestly recommend it to the reader with confidence. If somebody asked me honestly what would you buy, a 1975 Toyota Celica or a 1975 Ford Pinto back in the day. It was always the Toyota, why because it didn't break!


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[rcanfiel]

Your original topic was "Scammed or Clueless"
And now you say you were "trying to educate and inform others"

You were SCAMMED and the dealer was not CLUELESS

The members on this forum were trying to EDUCATE you when they said take it back.
You now have an expy with no miles on the engine That's good
But was all the extra headache and money worth it>
Is the up coming legal action worth it?

Go back and read your post #8 in which you stated "
I chose the 2009, to get past engine/tranny issues in the 2007-8 model.

Did you really get past the engine problems?

They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks Members tried to offer you advice and suggestions but YOU were determined that you wanted what you were SCAMMED into buying.

And that is why I stopped posting. I do not need to be hit with a hammer when I chart my own course. I am quite aware that people on forums have strong opinions. I have the same.

I do not believe there was a scam. I believe the dealer was not careful in acquiring the vehicle. And did not really do a good job in prepping it. But I do not plan on taking on their loss.

And yes, I expect this to be worthwhile.

 

[Clemson82]

For what it's worth, I'm glad you shared and, speaking for myself, I learned a lot from the comments posted by both sides. Thanks!

 

[rwmorrisonjr]

Do not buy 2007-2008. 2007 was new year with many problems. 2008 still had a number of problems. Also avoid 2012.

Off-topic question: what's wrong with the 2012 models? I have one and haven't had any issues in the past 105k miles, and I bought it brand new.

 

[stamp11127]

I'll venture out on a limb here. A good portion of the problems can be traced to poor maintenance by the owner(s), synthethic lubes with the extended fluid changes they offer.
How often do we "lazy Americans" change oil on time or earlier, use the cheapest products instead of the products that meet or exceed oem specs?
The other side of the coin is that the manufacturers don't build a large safety margin into the products - especially on the electrical side. Slight changes in load cooks the circuits and you get to buy the entire smart junction box for example.

 

[1955moose]

I heard a commercial on the radio the other day, talking about how vehicles have longer service intervals on oil changes, and other items. They suggested to take advantage of 10-15k services, to save the planet from all the disposal of fluids. How does recycling oil, and coolant cause pollution? It gets poured into a big vat, gets pumped into a bigger tank in a truck, then to a bigger tank at the plant. Even if their is some pollution at the plant processing the oil, it would seem running dirty oil in a vehicle isn't helping. Not only does it damage our vehicles by running contaminated fluid, but the vehicles oil has parts of fuel that has made its way into the crankcase. Diluted oil is never a good thing circulating through an engine, and into our atmosphere.


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[Snag]

Moose, I agree 100%, its basically a wash IMO. I would never even go for the 5k mile oil change interval, oil is the only cheap thing we can do to these rigs. Some of the stuff we hear now days just amazes me. I do believe that oils are of a much better quality then they used to be but when you consider some of the RPM's these smaller engines run I just wouldn't go that long. Especially as we get into the turbo engines as its looking like being the way of the future.

 

[rcanfiel]

Off-topic question: what's wrong with the 2012 models? I have one and haven't had any issues in the past 105k miles, and I bought it brand new.

The 2012 is on the Consumer Reports not recommended list (I have a subscription).

Perhaps due to the new engine introduced?

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

The 2012 is on the Consumer Reports not recommended list (I have a subscription).

Perhaps due to the new engine introduced?

The engine and tranny had both been around for several years at that point. Nothing significant changed at all in 2012. In any case, I personally put very little stock in CR's rating. They don't spend enough time with a vacuum to provide a worthwhile recommendation let alone a vehicle. That's not to say I don't consider their feedback when buying, but I consider it a very small piece of the pie.

 

[Bedrck47]

Well all I can say is I put very little faith in what rcanfiel has to say. He purchased a 2009 because of the reviews from many sources. After all he did his DUE DILAGANCE in checking out what years to stay away from and what years to buy and then he puts down the 2012 model and goes and buys a 2009 with a bad engine and despite many members telling/suggesting/advising him to take it back he dumps another 6000.00 into a new engine and puts it into a Expy that has 130000 miles on the clock.

If the engine was neglected it just makes me wonder how bad the rest of the mechanics of the expy were maintained. But no need to worry The dealer gave him a warranty that is about as good as the engine he replaced due to existing conditions.

I agree with ManUp about CR's ratings and have to remind myself they are in business to make money and publish a monthly that people BUY.

 

[Clemson82]

The vehicle reviews in Consumer Reports are probably questionable at best, and have been for years. They often site a model year with a specific problem, such as engine or electrical, but the prior year and the year after are fine, even though the manufacturer didn't change anything. The best part is the "used vehicles to avoid" section; a lot of those I actually agree with. Regardless, I always opt for a warranty with a used vehicles (through the credit union, not the dealer). The warranty on my Mercedes paid for itself 13x over! What a POS that was!!

 

[rcanfiel]

Well all I can say is I put very little faith in what rcanfiel has to say. He purchased a 2009 because of the reviews from many sources. After all he did his DUE DILAGANCE in checking out what years to stay away from and what years to buy and then he puts down the 2012 model and goes and buys a 2009 with a bad engine and despite many members telling/suggesting/advising him to take it back he dumps another 6000.00 into a new engine and puts it into a Expy that has 130000 miles on the clock.

If the engine was neglected it just makes me wonder how bad the rest of the mechanics of the expy were maintained. But no need to worry The dealer gave him a warranty that is about as good as the enging he replaced due to existing conditions..

And this insulting attitude is why I didn't post updates for awhile. Multiple spelling issues and the inability to understand what a reman engine does in relation to 130,000 miles notwithstanding.

 

[Bedrck47]

I totally understand "what a reman engine does in relation to 130,000 miles notwithstanding" but that does not change the fact that there is 130000 miles on the trans and all the suspension parts.

However I am curious as to how it was determined that there was 16000 miles on the oil before it was changed.

 

[rcanfiel]

I totally understand "what a reman engine does in relation to 130,000 miles notwithstanding" but that does not change the fact that there is 130000 miles on the trans and all the suspension parts.

However I am curious as to how it was determined that there was 16000 miles on the oil before it was changed.

The $11,500 price reflects the age of the other parts and systems. For the engine, my mechanic thinks I have the. By the balls regarding getting compensated for selling with a bad engine. My evidence and recourses are considerable.

Regarding 16,000 miles since oil change, I guess the mechanic has a setting that tells the change mileage. He also video-ed draining the old oil, which was pretty bad. Both of these are a part of my evidence

 

[Adieu]

I have been looking for a Exp EL for 2-3 months now, just found this site and now reading this horror story and you guys responses I am wondering if its the right type of vehicle to buy used... I have been looking for a 07-08 with as close to 100K as I can get for $10K... but what I am hearing on here is that is a potential disaster...there are not many of the EL's around western NY so I have been extending my search 3-4-500 miles out...now you guys have me scared to look at anything farther then 50 miles away! whats the real deal here...is the 5.4 that touchy?

Sounds more like an abused neglected vehicle.

Prolly repo'd frm crackheads

"Modern" motors never seem to run quite as long as well maintained simpler oldskool designs, but just look in craigslist you'll see tons of Expy/Navi/F150 with over 200k miles

I got a few livery driver buddies who say to expect that the truck should be good for 300k