Well, the spark plug demon got me

[jcmeyer5]

Took my 2008 into the dealership for a miss in the engine. They called spark plugs. I said fine replace them, and they ended up breaking 3 of 4 so far with one unextractable. So now they are telling me that I have to have the head removed to get the other one out. No help from the dealer or Ford. So I'm taking this one Greek style. lovely.

 

[jcmeyer5]

This is a ******* racket. They are suggesting I replace the ENGINE. For SPARK PLUGS.

 

[crector080862]

This is a ******* racket. They are suggesting I replace the ENGINE. For SPARK PLUGS.

That's because Ford doesn't play real mechanics anymore evidently I took mine for the dreaded clacking in the front of the engine when you start it you know timing chain cam phasers anyway I took it to the Ford dealership closest to me they said all we don't tear into him to diagnose it just wait till the engine starts knocking and then we'll just have it replaced

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[JExpedition07]

You are at a lousy dealership with bad staff in the shop. Unfortunately this is a common occurrence at dealerships. Ford issued a TSB and procedure for removing spark plugs from 04-08’ model year vehicles that the dealers don’t always follow. Carbon build up sticks the plug in the head and they break off. Fords solution was as follows: Spray carb cleaner in the spark plug wells and let soak for a minimal 20 minutes, loosen all plugs 1/2 turn with ratchet, switch to remove with impact quickly. This method normally works and your dealer likely didn’t follow it breaking that many as it sounds like the carbon was never broken up using the cleaner. I replaced all 8 myself on my 2007 and following the procedure it went smoothly.

 

[fordexpylvr]

I had all my plugs replaced last yr. they did break one off and I did have to pay for it. then later they found one was defective. had it replaced. have replaced all coils and 2 fuel injectors. my 07 expy 5.4 is running fine now but I am trading it off before it needs a cam laser. gonna get a 17 expy I am all done with 5.4

 

[1955moose]

Get it towed to a shop that has the removal tool. You'll have to pay the dealer for whatever they've done. Any decent shop can pull the broken ones, and replace with the new style one piece plugs. You don't have to pull heads, they're just being overly cautious, and want to run up the bill.

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[JExpedition07]

Also as moose said the replacement latest motorcraft plugs are not a three piece that will break, they’ve been updated.

 

[jcmeyer5]

They did 4 plugs, broke 3, extracted 2. They quoted $3850 to finish the job. I talked to the service manager and he threw his service rep under the bus. Said he should never have suggested a new engine. They lowered to $2950, and they are going to try to extract again before that. They haven't touched the other side yet.

The fact that Ford hasn't just authorized them to do the work necessary to remedy the flaw is beyond comprehension. Especially since they clearly know of the issue.

 

[Black]

I must be misreading something, they are saying you have to pay for the damage they caused???

 

[Habbibie]

Happened to me when I was doing my plugs, I stripped one so bad that neither the spark plug tool nor an extractor worked... took a lot of thinking and creativity but In the end I filled up the stripped plug with graphite powder and lord behold that gave it enough friction to allow the extractor to get a grip.

Paying 3k possibly 6k for a truck that's worth 6k is just stupid, I strongly recommend you take it either somewhere else or you do the work yourself and do it right... you know how it's done right? Cause you care about the damn truck you'll be patient enough to work it out cause you need the damn thing to run and not cost you an arm & a leg and possibly a ***** to get it fixed by some teenager straight out of UTI who ford hired but is clueless about anything that's not a 95 honda civic hatchback...

 

[sjwelds]

Done at least 3 different engines now, and the extraction tool worked flawlessly every time.

Lisle 65600

 

[bobmbx]

I must be misreading something, they are saying you have to pay for the damage they caused???

Pretty common. They didn't get it stuck. And its not damaged. Just stuck.

 

[1955moose]

Any time you bring a vehicle into a licensed shop, you sign an invoice, with a beginning estimate. Unless the shop decides to wave that $ amount, your responsible for at least that amount. If the service advisor/mechanic calls you, or your there in person has to revise the original estimate if it goes above the original estimate amount. You by law are responsible to pay that amount if services are rendered. In his case, he will probably get an adjusted amount if he removes the vehicle. All shops have what is known as a garage man's lien, that by law allows them to keep your vehicle until you pay. It varies from state to state, but the shop can legally sell your vehicle if you don't claim it and pay within 90 days.

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[Black]

Pretty common. They didn't get it stuck. And its not damaged. Just stuck.

He said they “Broke 3 of 4”

That means they are responsible for getting it back in working order no matter the cost.

If they were just stuck he would get his truck back in the same functional (granted with a miss) form that he DROVE the truck in with. And he would certainly not owe them the full amount quoted as they did not complete the job.

Now if I am understanding correctly the truck is not even drivable with 4 broken spark plugs 3 of which they can’t remove.

Unless I am reading something wrong. The dealers mechanic screwed it up. They ARE responsible.

If the mechanic backed it into a garage door or it fell off a lift while they were doing a simple oil change would they not be responsible?

 

[1955moose]

Shops, especially dealerships always tell the customer at drop off of the difficulty of the spark plug replacement. Even if they forgot to tell him, they cover their butt, with a bulletin from Ford that spells out the risk. It sucks, but they more than likely will not be held responsible. And no his vehicle is not drivable, it would have to be towed to another shop, or home. It's sad, but a way of life.

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[Black]

Shops, especially dealerships always tell the customer at drop off of the difficulty of the spark plug replacement. Even if they forgot to tell him, they cover their butt, with a bulletin from Ford that spells out the risk. It sucks, but they more than likely will not be held responsible. And no his vehicle is not drivable, it would have to be towed to another shop, or home. It's sad, but a way of life.

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OP did you get any information from the dealer that said.
We are not responsible for anything we screw up because this can be a tough job???

I certainly would not allow work be done by someone that says hey we might mess this up and you will be responsible for us causing your vehicle to no longer be operable.

 

[gixer2000]

I really hope this dealer was smart enough to allow some type of penetrating fluid to soak on that broken plug over night. I have friends that work at my local ford dealer and have never had to pull a head for a broken plug on a 3 valve. Just gotta be smart and patient

 

[bobmbx]

He said they “Broke 3 of 4”

That means they are responsible for getting it back in working order no matter the cost.

If they were just stuck he would get his truck back in the same functional (granted with a miss) form that he DROVE the truck in with. And he would certainly not owe them the full amount quoted as they did not complete the job.

Now if I am understanding correctly the truck is not even drivable with 4 broken spark plugs 3 of which they can’t remove.

Unless I am reading something wrong. The dealers mechanic screwed it up. They ARE responsible.

If the mechanic backed it into a garage door or it fell off a lift while they were doing a simple oil change would they not be responsible?

Only one is "unextractable". The other 3 are out. Only 4 were attempted so far (by the OPs posts). There are ways to extract even those "unextractable" plugs without pulling the head. And even then, popping a head off, working the plug out, then laying the head back in place does not cost nearly $4000. Beside the head gasket, there are no new parts so its all labor, and should be around $300-$500.

And it is common for owners to pay the extra cost associated with those ****** up plugs. It shouldn't be, but it is.

As to your analogy of backing into a wall or falling off a lift...thats not what happened here. At all. Your examples are negligence and the shop in that case would be 100% liable for damage. Breaking one those stupid plugs is not negligence. Its a bad design, well documented and widely known now for many years. I'd be quite surprised if that dealer did not discuss the possible issues with removing those plugs with the OP.

 

[Black]

The key is your last sentence.
If the dealer discussed the potential issue and the OP being responsible for the extra charges that is one thing.


If that that did not happen in writing the dealer is responsible for the damage and subsequent charges to repair them plain and simple.
The OP made no mention of such precaution by the dealer and is surprised the dealer is wanting to charge him.

How is Joe off the street supposed to know that this is such a difficult job and any different than an oil change or tire rotation for a certified mechanic at a dealer of the company that designed and engineered the thing would go a very long way in civil court.

Cross thread an oil pan during an oil change or cross thread a wheel stud during a wheel rotation. The dealer pays to make it right.

 

[1955moose]

That's true on a blatant mechanical issue that was mechanic induced. We had things at our shop that we had to pay for. But if that dealership knew more than how to write a work order, would have prepped the customer, or had the mechanic stop after the first breakage. If the tech went all the way to #4 breakage with no customer contact, and a revised estimate, would be opening that shop to a lot of grief. I've been on this forum pushing 4 years now, and it amazes me the horrible quality of both diagnostic, and repair that goes on throughout the country. Very few shops own up to their mistakes, and the vehicle owners pay for their poor mechanic ability.

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