Tow Package or No?

[JohnT]

Has anyone done a lot of towing with a non-HD tow package Expy? Would like to hear if you were happy with the performance and temps.

Pulling a 3500lbs boat on a 1000lbs trailer plus gear, no issues other than it being squirrelly on gravel roads but that was more due to the tires than anything else.

Stopped, started and moved as though nothing was behind me, in fact on more than one occasion I glanced in rear view mirror and frightened the crap out of myself when I saw a boat up my arse

It squats less and tows better than my previous 2013 1500 Silverado and almost as good as the 7700 F150 (basically an F250 in F150 sheet metal, awesome truck for towing)

 

[Paddler]

I have towed my boat, 3800#, to Washington and back, which is 1000+ miles each way. No tow package, no cooling problems. The way I saw it when I ordered my XLT Max was that the $1500 wasn't worth it. The shorter gear ration isn't needed when you have a 10-speed transmission, I didn't need the brake controller because my trailer has surge brakes, and I do fine backing up without the back up assist. So, I'd be paying the $1500 for an HD radiator and worse daily MPG. Happy with my choice.

 

[Blackscreen67]

A 3.73 rear end is the main benefit. Also allows you to sustain more efficient mpgs, and more power off idle to the rear wheels.

 

[Paddler]

A 3.73 rear end is the main benefit. Also allows you to sustain more efficient mpgs, and more power off idle to the rear wheels.

Not true. The 3.31 rear end has the potential to deliver better mileage. More power off idle isn't an issue for most who drive large SUVs.

 

[Blackscreen67]

Not true. The 3.31 rear end has the potential to deliver better mileage. More power off idle isn't an issue for most who drive large SUVs.

Off idle power is important for towing I think you'd agree. True it will require less rpm. I'm thinking from a sustained boost aspect. The sweet spot for the factory tuning is around 3krpms when the turbos want to come on. The lower the rpms the more turbo lag, and in return more reliance on raw fuel power compared to while boosted. That's the angle I was coming from.

 

[JohnT]

Off idle power is important for towing I think you'd agree. True it will require less rpm. I'm thinking from a sustained boost aspect. The sweet spot for the factory tuning is around 3krpms when the turbos want to come on. The lower the rpms the more turbo lag, and in return more reliance on raw fuel power compared to while boosted. That's the angle I was coming from.

Doesn't the torque converter allow the engine to spin up to whatever revs it needs at take off from stop regardless of rear axle? I can see the advantage in a manual transmission, but a modern auto box?

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Blackscreen67]

Doesn't the torque converter allow the engine to spin up to whatever revs it needs at take off from stop regardless of rear axle? I can see the advantage in a manual transmission, but a modern auto box?

Just thinking out loud.

Your thinking of stall speed of the converter, which is a preset rpm where the engine will then load. For perspective, the taller the ratio the easier to move load from idle.

On turbo charged motors, a sometimes easy way to see the stall speed is to power break the motor and see when boost starts to build.

 

[JohnT]

Yeps thats the one, so doesn't it negate or at least reduce the reliance of axle gearing? I'm thinking a 10 speed auto should be able to find a good* gear even pulling 6000 lbs

*for a value of good being appropriate power and torque at a fuel efficient rpm that doesn't over stress the transmission in both load and heat.

edit
Maybe I am thinking about this from the wrong perspective , maybe the axle gearing allows engineers to move the load further down the drive train to the rear axle where there is less to go wrong and less moving parts?

 

[shane_th_ee]

You've got to save a lot of gas to justify $9k as the OP is, apparently, only considering the 202A package if required to get the heavy duty towing package.

 

[5150 pops]

Could use some advice on how important the tow package really is for my intended uses.

I'm considering picking up a good deal on a 2018 XLT - much fewer to choose from if you have to have the HD Tow Package for 9k. I usually go for max spec, but with the other packages I want, this ends up adding a lot more than just the $1500 HD Tow package to the price.

I'm planning to tow 2-3 times per year about on a 1000 mile trips in the summer - about 2-3k pounds boat and trailer plus five people and gear in the truck. Frequent shorter towing of the boat on most summer weekends, 200 mile round trips.

Is the extra cooling and steeper 3.73 ratio worth it for me? Any drive-ability concerns or experiences with the 3.31 ratio to be concerned about?

I'm not too sure I understand, exactly what OP means...that is to say, re-reading the original plus the latest response, it starting to seem as though some possible confusion over prerequisites for HD Tow pkg.

Just to be clear, you can get a "stripped" XLT 4x4 Expedition, with the only option being HD Tow pkg, it's what I have.
Also I stumbled across this PDF dealer ordering guide. It makes zero mention of transmission or oil coolers. Also if you opt for the fx4 pkg and want HD Tow pkg, there's a ~$400 credit, as there's some redundancy between the two. Which is cool, but they both get the 2 speed transfer case and 3.73 f/r axle ratio, seems credit should be higher still.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAFegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw3SluEhDuQ2F7sbp0RRsx-i

 

[destination]

I think you are close to my dilemma - the best deals are on stripped down, left-over 2018 200A-spec models. These have the most $$$ off MSRP, with or without the HD Tow Package. Sometimes $10-11k off.

There are no comparable deals (in terms of difference below MSRP) on 202A + HD Tow Package + any other options like the sunroof.

There are also some deals on 202A or 201A specs without a tow package.

So, in short, if you want the Tow Package and some options - be prepared to pay a lot more than just the combined option uncharge.

According to CarGurus, these remaining 2018s XLTs sell pretty slowly too. Some have been on the lot 180+ days.

I'm leaning with going with the 200A-spec with HD-Tow - we haul kids, boats and dogs everyday and I can live without the bells and whistles. That said, if I could find one with the options I want and anywhere near the same difference off MSRP, I would buy it asap.

Appreciate the many fine insights - definitely have given me something to think about.

 

[Sgt Darkness]

I just purchased an '18 Max and went for the tow package mostly because of the extra cooling capability for the oil and trans and for resale benefit. I currently do not tow anything but I may in the future. You will get a tad better gas milage number with the no tow option but it is only marginal. Good luck!!

 

[5150 pops]

I think you are close to my dilemma - the best deals are on stripped down, left-over 2018 200A-spec models. These have the most $$$ off MSRP, with or without the HD Tow Package. Sometimes $10-11k off.

There are no comparable deals (in terms of difference below MSRP) on 202A + HD Tow Package + any other options like the sunroof.

There are also some deals on 202A or 201A specs without a tow package.

So, in short, if you want the Tow Package and some options - be prepared to pay a lot more than just the combined option uncharge.

According to CarGurus, these remaining 2018s XLTs sell pretty slowly too. Some have been on the lot 180+ days.

I'm leaning with going with the 200A-spec with HD-Tow - we haul kids, boats and dogs everyday and I can live without the bells and whistles. That said, if I could find one with the options I want and anywhere near the same difference off MSRP, I would buy it asap.

Appreciate the many fine insights - definitely have given me something to think about.

I had a new Ford back in 2010/1/2? that had the big sync setup. It was constantly freezing up, or would simply work when it felt ready.
I think a good portion of folks looking at these things want more nannies than barebones offered in 200 spec.

I'd have liked to have found 202 with HD tow, STD or max, I did not want black, red, or the triple coat white, so it limited me further. I definitely was going to have hd tow, regardless. So ingot silver, barebones STD chassis it was, for me, at end of July.

 

[Old Guy]

My cousin owned the largest transmission shop in town. He said the auxiliary tranny cooler is beneficial even if you do not intend to tow. Yesterdays cars and trucks ran at 160-180 degrees. Todays vehicles run at 200, and some higher to get better performance and MPG. The trannies run hot and additional cooling is desired. Note: when buying a used vehicle, warm it up and pull the tranny dipstick. If it smells burnt or is very dark, it may give you a very expensive lesson.
Before buying SUVs and pickups, I towed with full sized sedans. (Before 1980 they would tow ok) I added coolers and even an oil cooler. Never had engine or tranny coolers. And, adding these things do not require a rocket scientist or master mechanic.
Another word of advice: have the tranny fluid changed every 25K miles if you tow. There is a filter inside and a new one with new fluid flows smooth. A clogged filter can ruin a tranny fast.
To the OP: The Expies have a large radiator and engine cooling is very adequate. DO yourself a favor, and add tranny cooling if it does not come with the vehicle.

 

[JExpedition07]

My cousin owned the largest transmission shop in town. He said the auxiliary tranny cooler is beneficial even if you do not intend to tow. Yesterdays cars and trucks ran at 160-180 degrees. Todays vehicles run at 200, and some higher to get better performance and MPG. The trannies run hot and additional cooling is desired. Note: when buying a used vehicle, warm it up and pull the tranny dipstick. If it smells burnt or is very dark, it may give you a very expensive lesson.
Before buying SUVs and pickups, I towed with full sized sedans. (Before 1980 they would tow ok) I added coolers and even an oil cooler. Never had engine or tranny coolers. And, adding these things do not require a rocket scientist or master mechanic.
Another word of advice: have the tranny fluid changed every 25K miles if you tow. There is a filter inside and a new one with new fluid flows smooth. A clogged filter can ruin a tranny fast.
To the OP: The Expies have a large radiator and engine cooling is very adequate. DO yourself a favor, and add tranny cooling if it does not come with the vehicle.

On our Expeditions the trans fluid temp is thermostatically controlled. Meaning the fluid isn’t even released to aux trans cooler until 190 degrees is reached. A bigger cooler will not make your trans run any cooler as it’s temp controlled. It will run 190-200 degrees regardless the size of the cooler. While towing is where the extra capacity comes in handy, because the thermostat is wide open at max cooling and sometimes the smaller coolers can’t dissipate enough heat. But not towing there will be no difference in temp of the fluid as it’s regulated via thermostat. It will open and close as desired to keep that 190-200 degree temp.

 

[cekkk]

Things are getting pretty technical. As the owner of four Expeditions over the years I will only say OP plans on frequent light towing, so it seems to me that a factor is how long he plans to keep the vehicle. Just something to consider. And if the boat trailer has surge brakes, why be concerned with brake controllers.

A final factor is OP's risk tolerance level. I'd have to max out the vehicle's towing capability. Others, not so much.

 

[BenG]

When it arrives and I hook it up I will have a play

Have you got your IBC and made it works? I received mine and installed it by myself. When it comes to the coding, I tried with 2017 codes but it failed.

 

[JohnT]

Not arrived yet, post from the lower 48 takes a while to traverse the Canadian border

It seems to be stuck on a carousel in Chicago judging by the tracking history


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[Uturn]

Did a little research and the transmission cooler is the same for both tow and non-tow packages. It is a heat exchanger that is mounted right between the trans pan and the torque convertor. There is a difference in the radiators with the heavy duty unit being cheaper than the standard unit.
https://parts.autonationfordwhitebe...oling-system-cat/radiator-and-components-scat

 

[theoldwizard1]

Is the extra cooling and steeper 3.73 ratio worth it for me? Any drive-ability concerns or experiences with the 3.31 ratio to be concerned about?

Extra cooling is ALWAYS a good idea !

My daughter's 2012 did not have the HD Tow Package and they were planning on towing about 7,000 lbs ! They added the factory HD radiator and auxiliary transmission cooler and have had zero problems towing from MI to Disney World, FL.