Rebuild Top End or New Engine 183,000

[bloodhound]

They did pretty well in the Crown Vic cop cars.

They were durable, but not fast!

 

[rjdelp7]

They were durable, but not fast!

I have driven all 4 Expedition engines. 4.6l, 5.4l, 5.4l 3v and Eco. There is surprising not much difference. None made enough power to break the tires loose. They were designed to tow. The 5.4l 2v was slightly better than the 4.6l, but went through gas like crazy. 12mpg and less. The 5.4L 3v had like 30 more hp, 1 or 2 more mpg than the 2V. It sounded great when floored, but didn't seem like it was doing much, in the way of speed. The EB had best pep 0-40mph. Over that not that impressive. It seemed like it was working pretty hard, pulling that heavy SUV. The transmission made a few abrupt downshift/upshifts. It had to really rev high, to feel the power come on. I also noticed, it was lacking in the engine braking category. The V8 slows down better. I had the 4.6l in a 1999 Town Car. It is the same(panther) as the P71 Crown Vic. It ran way better than you think. That 19' car hauled ass. It had great power. I don't want hear a 5.4l 3V will blow the doors off anything. I drove it.

 

[mjp2]

I love the expi and I am married to this beast plan on keeping her for atleast 10 years. I have a problem with power now that I am running 35" tires and figure that if I can get around 500ftlbs of Tq I will enjoy the ride that much more. May just need to talk with an engine guy and see what you can do with cams pistons and heads...

Regear your differentials. You'll get more power to the ground, regain some MPGs, and take some strain off your driveline.

 

[brcknrdg Rob]

A crate 7.3l is over $11K plus labor to install/modify. The new 10sp is also almost $5k and much longer. No one in there right mind would sink $15K-$20K into a 2013.

Maybe on a first gen with a solid axle

 

[rjdelp7]

Regear your differentials. You'll get more power to the ground, regain some MPGs, and take some strain off your driveline.

This has been a problem with Jeep wranglers for years. When they get bigger tires have no power. The rear diff ratio has to be changed.

 

[brcknrdg Rob]

So we have decided that we will most likely be repowering our 09', which in the Boating world is the term one would use for replacing the engine. That being said I am going to try a few things first for diagnostics and knowledge since we have enough vehicles to cover if this goes down on us in a major way and we are forced into the replacement rather than when we elect to.

I had previously installed piece of crap coil packs a few months ago to fix the P0303 code and the noticeable misfire that became prevalent after that code flashed going up a large grade and experiencing a momentary loss of power. The thing ran bitchen for about 200 miles and then the misfire returned but was slightly less noticeable. After posting on here and other forums I now see the error in my ways when I failed to use OEM coil packs. Since I have elected to put a new engine in when the time comes I know that I will be wanting to have some things be new on it so I am going to start those purchases now so that;

1. I will have them when the time comes and I wont have to shell out all at once
2. To see if it fixes anything and may increase the amount of time we get out of it prior to the replacement.
3. The loud racket I associate with the Cam Phase Position Sensors (CPPS) seems to happen after letting off of the gas pedal while accelerating up a slight grade while in reverse and eventually going forward up the slight incline that is my driveway +/-5%. This had become a very reoccurring thing. My thought on this was that (like makuloco) said "even though you will not get the codes popping up with the cheap coil packs it will cause other issues". While letting off the throttle I would feel a drop in the engine RPMs and then the noise & rattles would start.
4. I gain some more life knowledge.

Yesterday I replaced all coil packs with motorcrafts. The vehicle had been siting for a week with a dead battery because I had left the key on after replacing the wiper reservoir, so the computer was clear. It ran really rough for a few minutes and then leveled out. It no longer surges while backing up and runs and idles very smooth(For now). I am going to replace all fuel injectors next. Spark plugs were done not to long ago. I will most likely get all new hoses, pullies, water pump, alternator and headers at the time of replacing the engine.

TLDR; Replaced cheap coil packs with motorcraft, seems to have helped with cam phasing issue, fuel injectors next.

 

[rjdelp7]

So we have decided that we will most likely be repowering our 09', which in the Boating world is the term one would use for replacing the engine. That being said I am going to try a few things first for diagnostics and knowledge since we have enough vehicles to cover if this goes down on us in a major way and we are forced into the replacement rather than when we elect to.

I had previously installed piece of crap coil packs a few months ago to fix the P0303 code and the noticeable misfire that became prevalent after that code flashed going up a large grade and experiencing a momentary loss of power. The thing ran bitchen for about 200 miles and then the misfire returned but was slightly less noticeable. After posting on here and other forums I now see the error in my ways when I failed to use OEM coil packs. Since I have elected to put a new engine in when the time comes I know that I will be wanting to have some things be new on it so I am going to start those purchases now so that;

1. I will have them when the time comes and I wont have to shell out all at once
2. To see if it fixes anything and may increase the amount of time we get out of it prior to the replacement.
3. The loud racket I associate with the Cam Phase Position Sensors (CPPS) seems to happen after letting off of the gas pedal while accelerating up a slight grade while in reverse and eventually going forward up the slight incline that is my driveway +/-5%. This had become a very reoccurring thing. My thought on this was that (like makuloco) said "even though you will not get the codes popping up with the cheap coil packs it will cause other issues". While letting off the throttle I would feel a drop in the engine RPMs and then the noise & rattles would start.
4. I gain some more life knowledge.

Yesterday I replaced all coil packs with motorcrafts. The vehicle had been siting for a week with a dead battery because I had left the key on after replacing the wiper reservoir, so the computer was clear. It ran really rough for a few minutes and then leveled out. It no longer surges while backing up and runs and idles very smooth(For now). I am going to replace all fuel injectors next. Spark plugs were done not to long ago. I will most likely get all new hoses, pullies, water pump, alternator and headers at the time of replacing the engine.

TLDR; Replaced cheap coil packs with motorcraft, seems to have helped with cam phasing issue, fuel injectors next.

I don't agree with your diagnosis at all. A bad cam position sensor, the engine won't start/run. There is no noise associated with it going bad. When fuel injectors go bad you get a code/cel. They can stick open and bleed off fuel pressure. It causes hard cold starts. The rattle you hear backing up, could be a loose heat shield on the exhaust. The front left ones are a problem. The misfire is a misfire, not slightly less misfire. Did you scan for a code or swap coil packs around? Brian Fordtechmakuloco, cautioned about knock off Motorcraft coil packs. So, Motorcraft isn't always Motorcraft, unless dealer purchased. I personally can say, I had good luck with a Accell coil pack. It was all Autozone had that day. It's been in there 8-9years along with my OEM coils.

 

[07navi]

I would just replace any coils that are bad. Replacing oem ones all with china coils and throwing way all the still good OEM ones is a bad idea. My OEM coils in my last truck were still good at 200k when I sold it.

 

[brcknrdg Rob]

I don't agree with your diagnosis at all. A bad cam position sensor, the engine won't start/run. There is no noise associated with it going bad. When fuel injectors go bad you get a code/cel. They can stick open and bleed off fuel pressure. It causes hard cold starts. The rattle you hear backing up, could be a loose heat shield on the exhaust. The front left ones are a problem. The misfire is a misfire, not slightly less misfire. Did you scan for a code or swap coil packs around? Brian Fordtechmakuloco, cautioned about knock off Motorcraft coil packs. So, Motorcraft isn't always Motorcraft, unless dealer purchased. I personally can say, I had good luck with a Accell coil pack. It was all Autozone had that day. It's been in there 8-9years along with my OEM coils.

The rattle is definitely in the engine and not a heat shield rattling. Im not sure how else to verbalize a "slight misfire" without being even more incorrect. From what I have heard there are many signs of faulty positioning but I may be wrong. I scanned the codes and replaced the coil packs that i replaced the original coil packs with and they are verified motorcrafts.

 

[brcknrdg Rob]

I would just replace any coils that are bad. Replacing oem ones all with china coils and throwing way all the still good OEM ones is a bad idea. My OEM coils in my last truck were still good at 200k when I sold it.

I replaced all of the original with cheapo chiese ones "ACCEL" I believe. I thought I had kept the original good ones seperate from the bad one but doubted my certainty so instead of taking a chance I replaced them all with verifiable motorcraft coilpacks. I now have seven good spares and 8 fishing weights. Another learning experience that I felt like documenting so that others may be one step ahead if they make it this far in the search.

 

[07navi]

I replaced all of the original with cheapo chiese ones "ACCEL" I believe. I thought I had kept the original good ones seperate from the bad one but doubted my certainty so instead of taking a chance I replaced them all with verifiable motorcraft coilpacks. I now have seven good spares and 8 fishing weights. Another learning experience that I felt like documenting so that others may be one step ahead if they make it this far in the search.

Put them on ebay. I bought used one in there as spares before

 

[joethefordguy]

A crate 7.3l is over $11K plus labor to install/modify. The new 10sp is also almost $5k and much longer. No one in there right mind would sink $15K-$20K into a 2013.

but they'd put 60+ grand in a new one?

 

[joethefordguy]

obviously a lot of people hate the 5.4... just like many people hate every engine ever made.
the 5.4 is not a boat anchor, nor is it the worst engine ever made. It's a damn good motor with excellent reliability, with some models having specific issues with spark plugs and the valve train (cam phasers, chain tensioners, etc.) if you want to insist it's the worst engine ever made, please provide comparative statistics making your case. a good start would be lifetime per mile repair and sustainment cost compared with every other engine ever made to demonstrate the 5.4 is at the bottom of the heap.

 

[07navi]

They have made those downfalls easier and cheaper to fix, my v-10 had plugs that blew out like a cannonball and exhaust manifold bolts that snapped off if you looked at them funny but it was all fixable thanks to U-tube and special tools they came up with.

 

[rjdelp7]

obviously a lot of people hate the 5.4... just like many people hate every engine ever made.
the 5.4 is not a boat anchor, nor is it the worst engine ever made. It's a damn good motor with excellent reliability, with some models having specific issues with spark plugs and the valve train (cam phasers, chain tensioners, etc.) if you want to insist it's the worst engine ever made, please provide comparative statistics making your case. a good start would be lifetime per mile repair and sustainment cost compared with every other engine ever made to demonstrate the 5.4 is at the bottom of the heap.

The 2V, had spark plug issues, intake coolant leaks and bad exhaust manifolds/studs. It is a pig on gas. The 3v has phaser and chain failures, plus the same rust prone exhaust manifolds. By comparison, the Cadillac Northstar was a nice running motor. Nice until the bad head bolts failed. That engine practically destroyed there reputation. It lowered the resale on cars with them. Many were junked before there time because the fix was so expensive. Trucks with 5.4l have a lower resale.

 

[joethefordguy]

The 2V, had spark plug issues, intake coolant leaks and bad exhaust manifolds/studs. It is a pig on gas. The 3v has phaser and chain failures, plus the same rust prone exhaust manifolds. By comparison, the Cadillac Northstar was a nice running motor. Nice until the bad head bolts failed. That engine practically destroyed there reputation. It lowered the resale on cars with them. Many were junked before there time because the fix was so expensive. Trucks with 5.4l have a lower resale.

********.

 

[craig sargood]

I would take a look at powertrain products, they have a great warrantie selection, they fix the bad things on the engine (threads on the heads). I have one, zero problems, I believe it was about $3k also, but everything in new. They also have great customer service.

 

[joethefordguy]

This has been a problem with Jeep wranglers for years. When they get bigger tires have no power. The rear diff ratio has to be changed.

This is not a Jeep problem. It is a fact of life that a change in the effective gear ratio, caused by switching to taller tires, reduces available power and torque at the wheels. Not “no power”, but certainly less delivered “power”. If you want to keep the available power and torque the same after installing taller tires, you must change the gear set. There are other ways, but by far the most cost effective is a new gearset.

 

[07navi]

This is not a Jeep problem. It is a fact of life that a change in the effective gear ratio, caused by switching to taller tires, reduces available power and torque at the wheels. Not “no power”, but certainly less delivered “power”. If you want to keep the available power and torque the same after installing taller tires, you must change the gear set. There are be other ways, but by far the most cost effective is a new gearset.

Isn't that basically what he said?

 

[rjdelp7]

Isn't that basically what he said?

To be exact and fair...Jeep Wranglers are upgraded with larger tires, probably more than most vehicles. They usually run better with a different ring and pinion. While it's not exactly a problem, but more of a result.