Fuel Injection/Emission Problem on 2017

[69Rustang]

Is this a warranty issue? Here goes: My wife’s 2017 Expy just threw on the check engine light. Scanned it and found p0172 and P0175, rich in both banks. After several hours of diagnosing, internet searching, and scratching my head, I know what is not wrong with it, but I don’t know what is wrong with it. Then a buddy said, isn’t it under warranty? I bought this used and the bumper to bumper is expired, would this be considered a drivetrain problem and covered? Sure hope so, I would like this to be someone else’s problem at this point.

 

[Psychobot90]

Any physical symptoms?

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[69Rustang]

I think it actually smells a bit rich... Idling and driving with the scanner hooked up the LT O2 sensors are way out of range negative.

 

[Psychobot90]

I think it actually smells a bit rich... Idling and driving with the scanner hooked up the LT O2 sensors are way out of range negative.

Check your intake temp sensor? I would start there. You can get the correct numbers off the internet but check the reference wire to make sure it's fluctuating. What does the oil temp read on the panel?
Check my earlier posts for more details on a similar issue I had. Would love to track your progress, so keep us posted!

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[69Rustang]

Coolant warmed to 190’s while driving. Didn’t check the oil temp. If what i saw an thought was an intake temp, it seemed low, but it was cool outside this evening. But was hoping to just make this Ford’s problem—opinion on this being covered?

 

[Psychobot90]

Coolant warmed to 190’s while driving. Didn’t check the oil temp. If what i saw an thought was an intake temp, it seemed low, but it was cool outside this evening. But was hoping to just make this Ford’s problem—opinion on this being covered?

I highly doubt Ford will step up to the plate on this one.

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[69Rustang]

Aaaand, you would be correct. The Ford dealer said the Purge valve is the problem, despite being a fuel vapor recovery/emissions part not covered, and they wanted $485 to replace it. I laughed at them and asked for my truck back. I bought one on Rock Auto, it will take 15 minutes or less to install. The drive cycle to reset the system will take three times longer than installing the part and wouldn’t be included in the dealer’s repair process or price. Also the Ford dealer said that they wouldn’t guarantee that would fix it, it could cost more. Reason #2 I asked for my truck back—if you won’t diagnose it and just want to throw parts at it, I can do that at home just the same but cheaper.

So we wait for the RockAuto part. In the meantime, we have a fleet of cars to drive and only 2 licensed drivers. So the Expy can sit for a few days.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

Pollution control systems have a longer warranty period 5/50K if I recall correctly. If you have warranty, drop it on the dealers lap.

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[Psychobot90]

Aaaand, you would be correct. The Ford dealer said the Purge valve is the problem, despite being a fuel vapor recovery/emissions part not covered, and they wanted $485 to replace it. I laughed at them and asked for my truck back. I bought one on Rock Auto, it will take 15 minutes or less to install. The drive cycle to reset the system will take three times longer than installing the part and wouldn’t be included in the dealer’s repair process or price. Also the Ford dealer said that they wouldn’t guarantee that would fix it, it could cost more. Reason #2 I asked for my truck back—if you won’t diagnose it and just want to throw parts at it, I can do that at home just the same but cheaper.

So we wait for the RockAuto part. In the meantime, we have a fleet of cars to drive and only 2 licensed drivers. So the Expy can sit for a few days.

To be clear for future readers - was the culprit the PCV solenoid? If so, which part number did you have and which one did you replace it with? If I remember correctly they are up to the third iteration of this part for your year with the original part being black and the most recent versions being red.

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[69Rustang]

While I am waiting for the part from Rock Auto, the part in question is the Purge Valve, not the PCV valve. The Purge valve is indeed on its third revision with a final digit of C in the part number. Ford PN: BL3Z9B325C For JamaicaJoe, I tried dropping it on the dealer and they said it was not covered. Given it is essentially a pollution control device I can’t see how it wouldn’t be part of the emissions warranty. The dealer suggested I reach out to Ford and seek assistance/recovery on this because of the low vehicle mileage (21K). Whatever, I am done fighting with Ford—they are as-h-les based on the lemon law fight I had with them a few years back, not going to get myself worked up over a $80 part I can put on in a few minutes.

 

[Psychobot90]

While I am waiting for the part from Rock Auto, the part in question is the Purge Valve, not the PCV valve. The Purge valve is indeed on its third revision with a final digit of C in the part number. Ford PN: BL3Z9B325C For JamaicaJoe, I tried dropping it on the dealer and they said it was not covered. Given it is essentially a pollution control device I can’t see how it wouldn’t be part of the emissions warranty. Whatever, I am done fighting with Ford—they are as-h-les based on the lemon law fight I had with them a few years back, not going to get myself worked up over a $90 part I can put on in a few minutes.

Good deal, thanks for clarifying. I've been assuming you have the ecoboost - which one? Also, how many miles?
Good info for those encountering your issue in the future.
Do post back when you get the part in and have results.

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[69Rustang]

It is a 3.5L with 21,000 miles.

 

[Psychobot90]

It is a 3.5L with 21,000 miles.

21,000?? How did you manage to find that gem!? I can see myself trying to get the dealer involved with that kind of mileage. Too bad they wouldn't work with you.

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[Psychobot90]

I think it actually smells a bit rich... Idling and driving with the scanner hooked up the LT O2 sensors are way out of range negative.

Did the dealer confirm a bad purge valve would cause your O2 sensor readings to bottom out?

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[gkretro]

I had a similar experience with Ford. My '17 gave me a code, don't remember the exact one, which indicated a PCV issue. I took it to Ford since I still had the bumper to bumper and emissions warranties. They warned me that warranty coverage was based on part number to identify if it was covered or not. They replaced one part, wanted to charge me, I asked them to check since the part was clearly emissions related. The service person checked and said it WAS covered, they had typed in the wrong part number the first time. I didn't argue with them but this was clearly bogus, mistyping a part number would have most likely bounced it back as an invalid number. I'll never go this dealer again needless to say. And during covid they've been calling, texting, and emailing me to remind me I am due for service.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

To be clear for future readers - was the culprit the PCV solenoid? If so, which part number did you have and which one did you replace it with? If I remember correctly they are up to the third iteration of this part for your year with the original part being black and the most recent versions being red.

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How difficult to remove the PCV valve?

Does it pull out, or twist out? Is it one the left (driver) side of the valve cover?

Thank you.

 

[Psychobot90]

How difficult to remove the PCV valve?

Does it pull out, or twist out? Is it one the left (driver) side of the valve cover?

Thank you.

After you disconnect the vacuum line, just twist and pull straight out. It's the one on the passenger side.
I knew mine was bad because it didn't stay closed during idle - the bearing would just bounce which sounded like shaking a spray can.

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[Machete]

If you want to get a reaction from that Ford dealer just blast them on the survey they send you. Watch what happens.

Hehehe.

 

[69Rustang]

Did the dealer confirm a bad purge valve would cause your O2 sensor readings to bottom out?

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That’s what hacked me off about the dealer—they said the purge was bad, but there could be other problems too. I had already tested the purge and thought it was good. I questioned the diagnostic and they said anything additional was additional whether the purge valve fixed it or not. I decided to do my own parts changing if that is how they operate. With 21K miles, how likely is it there are multiple failures in the system occurring simultaneously? Nil in my opinion, but if there is something else, the PCV is just as easily accessed and replaced if needed. But if it is not the purge valve, I think fuel pressure would be the next suspect—injection pressure sensor.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

That’s what hacked me off about the dealer—they said the purge was bad, but there could be other problems too. I had already tested the purge and thought it was good. I questioned the diagnostic and they said anything additional was additional whether the purge valve fixed it or not. I decided to do my own parts changing if that is how they operate. With 21K miles, how likely is it there are multiple failures in the system occurring simultaneously? Nil in my opinion, but if there is something else, the PCV is just as easily accessed and replaced if needed. But if it is not the purge valve, I think fuel pressure would be the next suspect—injection pressure sensor.

I did a similar little dance with them when my truck was under the extended warranty - more than once. Hey my engine is squealing and I think it's an idler pulley. Well, that's covered, but if it turns out to be an uncovered part then you're on the hook for the uncovered part AND 1-3 hours of diagnostics at $135/hour. OK, give me my truck back and I'll be in touch after I diagnose the problem for certain myself.