Cam Phaser engine damage

[cdog2964]

Im pretty sure i have the cam phaser issue talked about on this board, although my dealership wont acknowledge it and my question is will this cause engine damage or do i just live with it until i can find a dealership that will fix it? Been going on for about 4 months now.

 

[lv2drive]

supposedly no -
however, in my experience, my phasers got so noisy it seemed to cause other timing issues beyond startup. repair job cured the noises for a couple months - but the repair surgery itself may have caused or opened up other issues. this may be unique to me - or maybe not.

i’m now driving around with an intermittent tap that never shows up when i’m at the dealership, so hence i’m still driving it (perhaps to it’s 3.5 grave.)

pick your poison. if it sounds normal after startup then i personally wouldn’t touch it.

 

[cdog2964]

supposedly no -
however, in my experience, my phasers got so noisy it seemed to cause other timing issues beyond startup. repair job cured the noises for a couple months - but the repair surgery itself may have caused or opened up other issues. this may be unique to me - or maybe not.

i’m now driving around with an intermittent tap that never shows up when i’m at the dealership, so hence i’m still driving it (perhaps to it’s 3.5 grave.)

pick your poison. if it sounds normal after startup then i personally wouldn’t touch it.

You make a good point. I read that its a complex task to fix the issue. I did buy the extended warranty, thank god, so ive got some time on my hands. thx

 

[aggiegrad05]

I just got off the phone with the dealership...

I have developed the cam phaser rattle in the last month or so. I have a road trip coming up in a few weeks and given that sometimes this job takes a while, I wanted to make sure it was ok for me to go on my road trip before having it fixed.

Two things he said:
1) I will 100% not do any damage to my engine by continuing to drive without addressing the rattle. Once the rattle stops (so, 2 seconds after start-up) the issue that causes the rattle has corrected itself and the engine is running normally. So no damage to the engine.
2) They have parts readily available and the "cam phaser job" takes a week.

All of that, to me, was great news. Oh, and they always do a full oil change following the cam phaser job to make sure all is well there.

 

[Hamfisted]

The problem seems to be lack of oil in the top of the motor during cold starts. Specifically to the cam phasers. You can help your motor out and avoid any damage by cranking a cold motor for a few seconds before allowing it to actually start. This will prime the oil system and get oil up to the top of the motor and cam phasers before actually starting the motor. Just hold the brake and gas pedal down while cranking. The computer thinks you're trying to clear a flooded condition and won't allow the engine to actually start if you have the gas pedal down. After a few seconds, or when you see your oil pressure "gauge" show oil pressure is up, just let off the gas pedal and it'll fire right up, no noise.

 

[FlyBry]

Both are great news. #1 does not interfere with your road trip, and #2 seems like a reasonable amount of time to complete the repair.

 

[FlyBry]

Exactly what Hamfisted said sounds correct

The problem seems to be lack of oil in the top of the motor during cold starts. Specifically to the cam phasers. You can help your motor out and avoid any damage by cranking a cold motor for a few seconds before allowing it to actually start.

Make me wonder why the 3.5 HO in the Ford Gt runs higher viscosity. I get it, they are LeMans winning are race cars with 9.5 quart capacity. But I wonder if the 10W30 Mobil 1 is sufficient for 100+ degrees in TX.
https://oilincar.com/ford/gt/s_2-2017-.php

 

[Deadman]

My phaser job took 2 days...

 

[Alwaysthinkin]

The problem seems to be lack of oil in the top of the motor during cold starts. Specifically to the cam phasers. You can help your motor out and avoid any damage by cranking a cold motor for a few seconds before allowing it to actually start. This will prime the oil system and get oil up to the top of the motor and cam phasers before actually starting the motor. Just hold the brake and gas pedal down while cranking. The computer thinks you're trying to clear a flooded condition and won't allow the engine to actually start if you have the gas pedal down. After a few seconds, or when you see your oil pressure "gauge" show oil pressure is up, just let off the gas pedal and it'll fire right up, no noise.

Just made this a watched thread. Seems so easy. Is there any down side to following this start up procedure?

 

[Hamfisted]

Exactly what Hamfisted said sounds correct

Make me wonder why the 3.5 HO in the Ford Gt runs higher viscosity. I get it, they are LeMans winning are race cars with 9.5 quart capacity. But I wonder if the 10W30 Mobil 1 is sufficient for 100+ degrees in TX.
https://oilincar.com/ford/gt/s_2-2017-.php

If you look at what they recommend for the Gen4 Expy you'll see a higher viscosity as well, since they're not concerned with fuel mileage like the factory is.

https://oilincar.com/ford/expedition/v_4-2016-.php

 

[lv2drive]

i agree that the higher viscosity is preferable for these

 

[FlyBry]

Same as the Ford GT. Looks like I get to test my new quick drain plug.
2018
10W-40
15W-40 0W-40
0W-50 20W-40
25W-40
SN + EC II CJ + EC II synthetics Castrol, SHELL, Mobil, Valucraft, Pentosin
2019
10W-40
15W-40
15W-50 0W-40
0W-50 20W-40
25W-40
SN + EC II CJ-4 + EC II only synthetics SHELL, Mobil, Castrol, Valucraft
2020
5W-40
10W-50 0W-50 15W-50
20W-40
SN + EC II CJ-4 + EC II only synthetics SHELL, Castrol, Mobil
2021
5W-50
10W-50 0W-50 15W-50
SN + EC II CJ-4 + EC II only synthetics SHELL, Castrol, Mobil

 

[Vipersinu2]

Im pretty sure i have the cam phaser issue talked about on this board, although my dealership wont acknowledge it and my question is will this cause engine damage or do i just live with it until i can find a dealership that will fix it? Been going on for about 4 months now.

Step on the gas pedestal when starting.

That will make the engine crank longer. It will build oil pressure.

 

[John I]

My phaser job took 2 days...

Same here, although they asked that I not pick up the vehicle until the following morning so they could verify all was quiet during a cold start.

 

[Motorcity muscle]

Nice tip with the gas pedal for a cold start. Thanks.

 

[LokiWolf]

If you look at what they recommend for the Gen4 Expy you'll see a higher viscosity as well, since they're not concerned with fuel mileage like the factory is.

https://oilincar.com/ford/expedition/v_4-2016-.php

I agree with the info, but I am a little skeptical of a site that lists the 4th Gen as 16-21. It is 18-21. If you were going to do it based on when the EB was added to the Expedition it would still be wrong as that was 15.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[LokiWolf]

I agree with the info, but I am a little skeptical of a site that lists the 4th Gen as 16-21. It is 18-21. If you were going to do it based on when the EB was added to the Expedition it would still be wrong as that was 15.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Actually I take that back…the table is inconsistent.

Oils specs for the Motors should be the same for any 2nd Gen 3.5, which is in all 4th Gens 18-21. Not to mention, 16/17 should have the same specs too, again, same exact motor.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Artie]

I just got off the phone with the dealership...

I have developed the cam phaser rattle in the last month or so. I have a road trip coming up in a few weeks and given that sometimes this job takes a while, I wanted to make sure it was ok for me to go on my road trip before having it fixed.

Two things he said:
1) I will 100% not do any damage to my engine by continuing to drive without addressing the rattle. Once the rattle stops (so, 2 seconds after start-up) the issue that causes the rattle has corrected itself and the engine is running normally. So no damage to the engine.
2) They have parts readily available and the "cam phaser job" takes a week.

All of that, to me, was great news. Oh, and they always do a full oil change following the cam phaser job to make sure all is well there.

Mine is doing it now as well. I have a wheel bearing on order for a warranty fix and I’m going to have them officially diagnose the rattle when they replace the bearing. Thankfully, I have the extended warranty because I’m about 800 miles until the factory one expires…. Ugh.

 

[Lghtspeedz]

Step on the gas pedestal when starting.

That will make the engine crank longer. It will build oil pressure.

Did the cam phaser software update do just this? I’ve noticed that in a cold start situation the car cranks at least twice as long as when it’s hot. And it doesn’t appear to do it because it’s struggling to fire. When I first saw that software update I thought it was strange but maybe this is exactly what it does?

I presume my car has that update because it was listed on the carfax before delivery but not after. I obviously forgot to ask.

 

[dwmarks]

Cam phaser job took 2 days. In/out, no probs. At the end of the day, your experience probably depends mostly on the knowledge/competence/skills of your local dealer.